harvey 1984 Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hello all the bloke i shoot with has a .17 fireball which he is having trouble with ,a few weeks ago it was grouping on a 5 pence but lately the groups are very inconsistant they are anywhere from a 5 pence to a inch and a half,he is not a user of pigeon watch and i know little about home loading,but he has home loaded for his 204 ruger for a few years which shoots spot on,so if anyone has any experience with .17 fireballs it would be good to hear from you, thanks chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 When was the rifle last cleaned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodlepigeon Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 How many round has it had through it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey 1984 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 When was the rifle last cleaned? have all ready eliminated the cleaning element as he is a cleaning nut and is very anal about it thanks chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey 1984 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 How many round has it had through it? its a nearly new rifle maybe a few hundred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 You know alot about your mates rifle It could be a million things barrel crown,barrel touching stock, shooting technique, scopes, maybe he's doing something differant with his reloading, is he consistent with his reloading regime etc,etc etc. Its a process of elimination I'm afraid,just had exactly the same with my remmy 700 243 and homeloads,shoots very well then groups open out. Couldnt work it out until I changed the scope, the eyebox on the scope was faulty and moving about, but it took me ages checking everything over before sorted,even a new stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey 1984 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 You know alot about your mates rifle It could be a million things barrel crown,barrel touching stock, shooting technique, scopes, maybe he's doing something differant with his reloading, is he consistent with his reloading regime etc,etc etc. Its a process of elimination I'm afraid,just had exactly the same with my remmy 700 243 and homeloads,shoots very well then groups open out. Couldnt work it out until I changed the scope, the eyebox on the scope was faulty and moving about, but it took me ages checking everything over before sorted,even a new stock. he has also tried a new accuracy international stock on his to no effect.the bloke is a very good shoot and uses the same reloading techniques,think a last resort will be a new barrel i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodlepigeon Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 I would try a different scope, mounts like redgum has already said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) If the gun has only done a few hundred rounds it shouldnt be the barrel unless he's been cleaning with 400gr wet n dry. Still loads to eliminate before expensive barrel change, what scope is on it. Has he bought new powder lately as even same types can vary in burn rate, viht state 10%+- between batches. Edited September 20, 2011 by Redgum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 nitty gritty details- what twist on the barrel, what loads (powder and bullet) was he shooting that shot well. What loads is he shooting now? What scope is it? What gun is it (brand/model)? How does he clean it? Has the rifle been dropped or jarred in any way? When did he change the stock and why? How was the accuracy before he changed? Lots of things not specific to the 17FB, but then a few that could be. Also, what part of the country are you/he in? Maybe someone nearby to diagnose. Thanks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey 1984 Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 he has a post on the hunting life in the reloading section so if anyone wishes to have a look they can thanks chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) If all else fails, then tuck a piece of leather or anything else between the end of the fore end and the barrel so that it has a snug fit . This trick will nearly always tighten a group up, contrary to common belief . Some times a barrel can harmonize to much . I have a .308 with a lead washer underneath the barrel and touching the forend . This little trick tightend my group from one and a half inches at 100 yards to close on half an inch at 100 yards . Harnser . Edited September 20, 2011 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I am with Redgum,Garyb and YDP on this. It could be a lot of things and one thing I am sure about is that PROPER cleaning technique is critical with fast steppers like the Fireball. I have heard of some that think a couple passes with Hoppes takes all the copper out. Dream on!! I would have someone scope the barrel before even thinking about replacing it. It could be dirty and need a little JB paste. Remember the rifling on the .17 is only .0015 compared to .003 for the .22 centerfires.It doesn't take much to foul it, and factory barrels aren't famous for their interior lapping. The first thing I would do is stick a proven scope on the gun and shoot it on the bench. You have just either confirmed or ruled out my first suspicion. A lot number change in powder can affect velocity but unless he's way off the edge on harmonics it should not affect accuracy that much. One last thought, does he shoot it off the bench much or just hunt with it? You can take the throat out of a .17 in a warm afternoon of constant firing without regard to barrel temp. When the throat leaves the accuracy usually follows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 If all else fails, then tuck a piece of leather or anything else between the end of the fore end and the barrel so that it has a snug fit . This trick will nearly always tighten a group up, contrary to common belief . Some times a barrel can harmonize to much . I have a .308 with a lead washer underneath the barrel and touching the forend . This little trick tightend my group from one and a half inches at 100 yards to close on half an inch at 100 yards . Harnser . I guess I continue to learn, I had never heard of over harmonizing a barrel before. Some actions Mausers in particular do not like floated tubes as their action stiffness is inherently weak from the huge cutout and small action bedding area. They indeed need some upward thrust on the barrel to relieve the stress on the action. Most guns I deal with shoot best with no stock interference and I shoot synthetics to make sure things don't change when the weather does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey 1984 Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I am with Redgum,Garyb and YDP on this. It could be a lot of things and one thing I am sure about is that PROPER cleaning technique is critical with fast steppers like the Fireball. I have heard of some that think a couple passes with Hoppes takes all the copper out. Dream on!! I would have someone scope the barrel before even thinking about replacing it. It could be dirty and need a little JB paste. Remember the rifling on the .17 is only .0015 compared to .003 for the .22 centerfires.It doesn't take much to foul it, and factory barrels aren't famous for their interior lapping. The first thing I would do is stick a proven scope on the gun and shoot it on the bench. You have just either confirmed or ruled out my first suspicion. A lot number change in powder can affect velocity but unless he's way off the edge on harmonics it should not affect accuracy that much. One last thought, does he shoot it off the bench much or just hunt with it? You can take the throat out of a .17 in a warm afternoon of constant firing without regard to barrel temp. When the throat leaves the accuracy usually follows it. Thanks for the advice i will pass it on to him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 If all else fails, then tuck a piece of leather or anything else between the end of the fore end and the barrel so that it has a snug fit . This trick will nearly always tighten a group up, contrary to common belief . Some times a barrel can harmonize to much . I have a .308 with a lead washer underneath the barrel and touching the forend . This little trick tightend my group from one and a half inches at 100 yards to close on half an inch at 100 yards . Harnser . Sounds like a sticking plaster repair on a gun with poor bedding or bedding area at the action end to me. Some rifles need this pessure pad on the barrel to overcome lack of ridgidity in the action bedding area. Harmonise too much? not to my mind its more a case of its playing a different tune each time due to issues further back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopps Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 1:Check to see if the Screws holding the Action to the Stock are tight. 2:Check the Mounts. 3:Inspect the Muzzel Crown for damage,sometimes a little nick or Scratch can throw things out. 4:If all that fails,try changing the Scope and sighting it in again. Best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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