Lloyd90 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 What type of things should you be doing to keep your rifles in good condition I currently have a CZ 17HMR and 243. What type of kit would you need to give them a proper clean down to keep em in good shape ? I normally give em a wipe down with an oily rag after use but haven't really cleaned the barrels :look: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) What type of things should you be doing to keep your rifles in good condition I currently have a CZ 17HMR and 243. What type of kit would you need to give them a proper clean down to keep em in good shape ? I normally give em a wipe down with an oily rag after use but haven't really cleaned the barrels :look: the HMR a quick pull through every 50 odd shots the 243 a prope de carbon and copper removal every 20 odd shots,the 243 will suffer accuracy problems if you dont clean it right Edited November 10, 2011 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 cheers Ackley, have to get down the gun shop and pick up the right kit for the job Hope me leaving it for a while won't be detremental. They've haven't been too heavily used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 cheers Ackley, have to get down the gun shop and pick up the right kit for the job Hope me leaving it for a while won't be detremental. They've haven't been too heavily used the biggest problem with a gun that wont shoot or has gone off is fouling down the barrel,as long as you aint put hundreds of shots through it you should be able to clean it easy enough,just one point stop away from these new fangled water based cleaners there not worth a toss,get something that blows your head of when you sniff it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Wipe over with a lightly oiled rag and the next round cleans the bore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Big thug... I watched a 10 year old mannlicher shoot a cloverleaf group at 100 yards not long ago and it never saw a cleaning rod in its life, make of that what you will, if you need proof of that PM nipper off here, he owns the gun and shot the group and it must have had hundreds upon hundreds of rounds through it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 The fact is that the life of the barrel will be increased on the .243 with regular carefull cleaning and yes the accurtacy will hold up better, thats not to say nobody has a dirty, filthy gun that still shoots of course. 17 hmr is also better cleaned than not. Now the important bit Bad cleaning with the wrong stuff in the wrong way will reck a gun far faster than no cleaning at all. Also if your gonna clean, clean never do a half clean that seems to narf things up worse than anything in my experiance. Can we get away from this name calling from both sides please? we are gonna end up with more locked threads than open ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Here we go, another lock down a coming, oh well, all harmless fun. Ackley stop sniffing that 'stuff that blows your head off'. KG12 is good stuff for moving copper fouling, but if the gun is kept clean then fouling is no problem. I shoot all my guns clean, even .22lr and they are all accurate rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 This is what happens when you try and "shoot a gun clean" With centrefire copper jacketed bullets the copper that is removed comming down the bore is compressed by the next bullet. Ok it cannot actually be squished inside the chrome moly or stainless steel of the barrel but it is compressed into any little grooves, firecracks,fisures and the very corners of the lands. it can also spread out further by this compression so you have basically what amounts to almost a copper plated barrel. Ok the gun might still shoot to an exeptable std to you BUT when left stored or even carried in the field moisture finds its way under that metalic covering and creates corrosion which as we know also spreads (think of the old vinyl roof cars if it helps), this further damages the bores surface. The very reason custom barrels are lapped is to create a smoother bore, watch the bench guys they clean before thier gun even leaves the bench (trust me they do it for very good proven reason). Ok so why is this shoot it clean theory so previllent, well my take on it is if you clean one of these "shot clean" guns one of two things happen 1. all the copper and filth is not removed but it is moved to the high points rather than the low and balls up in crucial areas like the corner of the lands. Hence "i cleaned it and it shot worse" "so i put some more rounds through it and they sorted it!" no they just spread it out more evenly again. But the myth continues. 2. the other thing is the bore is realy well cleaned and hence exposes the corrosion that has been trapped and covered by the copper, lead and filth of all those passing bullets. This exposes the bullet to something akin to abrasive paper, remember lapping? and the barrel is basically at the premature end of its life. As for lead and wax rimfire bullets. These are slightly different. Many again believe you must never clean them, to a greater extent this has some truth in it, note the word "some". I say this as any lead rimfire bullet shoots best through a lightly leaded bore. After a good clean a gun will go off a little and generally needs something in the region of 20-50 rounds to settle down again, depending on the individual gun. However a heavilly fouled gun shoots it will always shoot better after a realy good clean and a short session to bring it back on. Likewise its a bad idea to mix brands especially if one has a copper wash as you realy need consistancy in the lead to lead match not to mention the lubes. Again competitive match shooters all clean regular, a friend of ours who has won medals at British eupopian and comonweath level and cleans before leaving the range and again on return home more thoughly The increase in accurracy from stripping and cleaning the bolt on a dirty somewhat neglected rimfire rifle can also be quite staggering. Rimfires are very dirty little cartidges considering how little they burn any semi auto user can attest to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 amazing not one mention from the experts of "wipe over with an oily rag and the next bullet fired will clean the bore" http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.rifle-bore-cleaning.html http://www.bordenrifles.com/Barrel_cleaning_edited.pdf http://www.chuckhawks.com/gun_cleaning.htm http://www.potfire.com.au/info/reno3.htm http://custompistols.com/bengtson/articles/bblcare.htm Iam bored now with this as my point is prooven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Well it aint Ackerly binning this thread, ever though there might be a few people who might value a sensible discusion on such an important issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Well it aint Ackerly binning this thread, ever though there might be a few people who might value a sensible discusion on such an important issue dont worry about it mate what ever I say certain people will say Iam wrong,its there childish mentality,its shame these trolls cant bring anything remotley constructive to the table to try to help those that needs it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I clean the .243 when I notice a change in accuracy. Typically 60 or so shots. Clean the .22 bolt action once a year. (Not much use) and the .22 semi auto when it starts jamming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Double post...the turnip had posted by the time I went to finish it.. Edited November 12, 2011 by gixer1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Just to make it clear, I posted what many people do with there 22's and centrefire rifles, if you don't like that - tough! If people didn't assume they are know-it-all's then there wouldn't have been a problem. If you want to clean your rifle then clean it....if you clean ia rimfire every 50 rounds it will shoot all over the place. As for a centre fire as cockercas you still here,has it taken you this long to hop on the back foot and see what a idiot you have made yourself look, Ive seen some back peddling in my time but your the best you actually said "Wipe over with a lightly oiled rag and the next round cleans the bore" and NOT "I posted what many people do with there 22's and centrefire rifles, if you don't like that - tough!" where do you get off man,also the nOP didnt mention a 22 rimmy its an HMR and a 243 both which shoot copper jacketed bullets which DO need cleaning unlike a rimmy thats fires lead bullets that dont need cleaning again showing the whole site that you aint got the first idea so you have made nothing "clear" just made yourself look even more foolish,come back to me when you nbhave something consructive to say or add to a post which is trying to help others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Just to make it clear, I posted what many people do with there 22's and centrefire rifles, if you don't like that - tough! If people didn't assume they are know-it-all's then there wouldn't have been a problem. If you want to clean your rifle then clean it....if you clean ia rimfire every 50 rounds it will shoot all over the place. As for a centre fire as cockercas said - clean when you notice a problem, 60 shots in the average stalking rifle is a year of shooting. today - no cleaning involved and a nice tight group so take that as you will. Edited November 12, 2011 by gixer1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Just to make it clear, I posted what many people do with there 22's and centrefire rifles, if you don't like that - tough! If people didn't assume they are know-it-all's then there wouldn't have been a problem. If you want to clean your rifle then clean it....if you clean ia rimfire every 50 rounds it will shoot all over the place. As for a centre fire as cockercas said - clean when you notice a problem, 60 shots in the average stalking rifle is a year of shooting. today - no cleaning involved and a nice tight group so take that as you will. have you pinched someone else photo you call that a group give it a clean you may be surprized. you diodnt say "what most people do" you said "wipe with an poily rag and the next shot will clean the bore" it wont and you know it,well I hope you do rim fire hasnt been mentioned the OP shoots a HMR and a 243 both which use a copper jacketed bullet which will need cleaning. fine cleaning when the group opens up,no problem with that BUT what happens in between those shots ?? the build up of carbon and copper also water which rots the barrel and pitts it its all there in the links I posted if you dont understand,its not a case of "know it all" as we can learn something everyday,its a case of doing what right with your equipment to keep it in good form as your shooting live animals so you have a duty to know where that bullet is going,or do you look at whats gone wrong with your gear when something is running away gut shot (sorry for this post I thought my other one hadnt gone up) Edited November 12, 2011 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) I have a .17HMR & have put over 500 rounds through it never cleaned the bore & it still groups 1" at 70yards no prob, :good: as for cleaning a bore on a CF no idea mate. m Edited November 12, 2011 by blackbird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Sorry, can you type that again? I "jave" no idea what the oily "rage" is about or the "your" is about? Maybe "you're"? Hopefully my firearms will continue to "go off" and harm wild animals as that's kind of the whole point of them... :blink: As I said, if you need to go through all the little things to achieve what most do just by shooting the rifle and not fannying around then that's ok, don't worry mate, some people need to do things like that, others can just do it without the song and dance - as I said, don't let it worry you mate, it's ok - do what you need to do to get results. Regards, Gixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark g Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 to be fair gixer and i dont want to get involved in any arguments the pic of that target does look like the gun needs a clean, if that was at 100 yards the impact is going to be 3-4 inches right at 200 yards and the group is not really that tight either, it could be something as simple as the target you are useing though, i just draw a 2 inch cross on a sheet of a4, it offers something more precise to place the crosshair on than a round bull and means i can calculate adjustments to the scope from the size of the cross if that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Mark, See below pic of the back of the target board, how much tighter does it need to be? I would say the highest shot was to do with a slight pull and maybe stringing. And the poi is adjusted after the group so it is now 3 clicks left at 100yards...which will be pretty much point and shoot out to 200-225 with 75gr bt's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Mark, See below pic of the back of the target board, how much tighter does it need to be? I would say the highest shot was to do with a slight pull and maybe stringing. And the poi is adjusted after the group so it is now 3 clicks left at 100yards...which will be pretty much point and shoot out to 200-225 with 75gr bt's. Dont make the mistake of thinking the one group is great, if it does that everytime it means a heck of a lot more, but saying it does this at 100 so it will do double that group size at 200yds etc is totally incorrect, to say this you have to shhot it at those extended ranges (this comes from BS reviews from a cerain Editor of a certain comic and its just not true any one who has actually shot at such ranges competantly and regulary will tell you the same). IMO 100yds is not even a good testing range for any centrefire, even the humble Hornet! This has nothing to do with if you can use a dirty gun to shoot foxes and deer but more how long your gun remains servicable and reliable. I have said similar before but if a gun shoots 2 1/2" at 100yds then i can kill deer with it no problems but its unlikely as heck i can keep it to 5" at 200yds. If the gun was cared for i would wadger it would be more accurate after 2-3000 rounds at 300yds than if it was neglected and markedly so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Dont make the mistake of thinking the one group is great, if it does that everytime it means a heck of a lot more, but saying it does this at 100 so it will do double that group size at 200yds etc is totally incorrect, to say this you have to shhot it at those extended ranges (this comes from BS reviews from a cerain Editor of a certain comic and its just not true any one who has actually shot at such ranges competantly and regulary will tell you the same). IMO 100yds is not even a good testing range for any centrefire, even the humble Hornet! This has nothing to do with if you can use a dirty gun to shoot foxes and deer but more how long your gun remains servicable and reliable. I have said similar before but if a gun shoots 2 1/2" at 100yds then i can kill deer with it no problems but its unlikely as heck i can keep it to 5" at 200yds. If the gun was cared for i would wadger it would be more accurate after 2-3000 rounds at 300yds than if it was neglected and markedly so It's a sporting/stalking rifle, do you have any idea hom many years it would take to shoot 2-3000 rounds with a stalking rifle??? and yes, it will consistantly shoot this group at the 100 yards mark from what i've seen, I don't shoot out side of 200 yards at live targets as theres not a roe deer or fox in the land (what I most commonly shoot) that someone can't get within 200 yards of...I occasionaly shoot targets to check zero or test a round/scope but don't use a range as there are no real number of them up this way. why is 100 yards not a good testing range??? most factory rounds always list a 100 yard table which would say someone disagree's there... on the timeline for a servicable rifle, as I said before, I know of a few rifles that are 10+ years old and have been treated to very little or no cleaning other than being shot clean and they are still extremely accurate.. The fact some people argue this cannot be true shows thier ignorance...plenty of rifles are not regularly cleaned and still shoot a tight group. Regards, Gixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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