pigeon slayer Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 hi all i have a 20bore fully moderated and my most recent buy is a 12bore fabarm semi auto fitted with the hushpower, unfortunatly the only subsionc cartridge is a 32 grame 6 from eley that wont always cycle and seems to only be good at killing magpies. i was wondering if anyone had any ideas of an alternative? tryed eley vip 32 grm 6, not quiet! the only reason i ask is that i have found to my amazement that eley 20 vip game 30gms (withch are apparently 1450 fps)are much more quiet than the special subsonic hushpower load from gamebore. also eleys 410 four long cartridge seems to be more quiet than the hushpower 3" load also from eley. ps. my 12 bore is quieter than the 20 witch is odd as the fully modeated is susposed to be the best noise reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 make your own, shoot #4shot. be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon slayer Posted November 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 make your own, shoot #4shot. be happy. what with? lee loadall? i tryed game bore 42 grm 3 because the said that they are slower than others and thay seem to be on a par with the subs the only down is that thay kick like a mule! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I think what you need to do is find a recipe for what you want to shoot and make your own cartridges. If you can't find a specific subsonic recipe you can generally find a standard one that uses a relatively fast powder and just drop a grain or two. Fast powders create good pressures more easily and using one of them with a little less powder will generally still get you a good clean consistent burn. Vectan AS would be a good start for a 12gauge subsonic. Generally speaking if your barrels are clean with only fine dust left after the shot the powder is creating enough pressure to burn well. Here is a published 28gram subsonic recipe for 12gauge. A standard 28gram fibre recipe similar to this would use more like 22grains of powder so you have quite a safety margin to experiment with. 70mm PT case CX2000 primer 15.0 grains Vectan AS 3mm overpowder card +20mm Fibre+5mm Cork wad 28g lead shot 1040fps Sub-Sonic 6pt crimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 i have some eley hushpower 12g shells, they killed pretty well out to 30/40 yd rabbits, not the quietest gun but ok none the less. let us know how you get on making your own chap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I think what you need to do is find a recipe for what you want to shoot and make your own cartridges. If you can't find a specific subsonic recipe you can generally find a standard one that uses a relatively fast powder and just drop a grain or two. Fast powders create good pressures more easily and using one of them with a little less powder will generally still get you a good clean consistent burn. Vectan AS would be a good start for a 12gauge subsonic. Generally speaking if your barrels are clean with only fine dust left after the shot the powder is creating enough pressure to burn well. Here is a published 28gram subsonic recipe for 12gauge. A standard 28gram fibre recipe similar to this would use more like 22grains of powder so you have quite a safety margin to experiment with. 70mm PT case CX2000 primer 15.0 grains Vectan AS 3mm overpowder card +20mm Fibre+5mm Cork wad 28g lead shot 1040fps Sub-Sonic 6pt crimp what you need to do is find a higher pressure load (10,000psi +) that has a speed of 1200fps and reduce the powder charge. selecting the right load will respond better to a reduction in powder. vectan AS is a great starting point. i prefer 32g loads with vectan AS for subsonic loads. thats just my personal taste. they burn very clean. better than factory shells in some cases. i dont like this load above, because there is no pressure data. even though it is safe. i prefer to reduce a higher pressure load thats already quite slow. there is a post about subsonics. it gets pulled up every now and again.. search for it, it will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbers Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I've been loading a lot of subs using cookoffs recipe from that other thread. I've dropped the Vectan to 15 grains, and use no6 shot. I shoot mainly clays and just for fun I chuck two or three commercial clay loads into my cartridge bag of 50 homemades to wake myself up and remind me how good this load really is! the difference in noise and recoil is remarkable and less recoil means less fuss. more accuracy. Made 100 today in some nice Gamebore Gordon Hulls with 20mm brass, they'll be gone by the weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon slayer Posted November 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 thanks everyone, i think im gonna have to make my own to suit my needs. i need a load thats hevy enough to cycle but slow enough not to brake the sound barrie.dose anyone know if i can make a 34grm load of 4s with out blowing my self up.the man in my gun shop said that it would not as i would need to much charge to move the shot and that would make it supper sionic. :unsure: im not sure why the eley 32grm subs made for the hushpower dont cycle and the 28grm 8s subs made by express cycle all day. going to buy a leeload all at the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 there are recipes for subsonic 36g loads. needs a different powder. no disrespect to the "man in the shop" but he may not know what he is talking about. cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 does your gun cycle with gas or inertia? you could try some vectan AS subsonics first. untill you try them you wont know if they`ll cycle the gun. the key with all cartridges is good pressure, that makes the shell burn efficient. subsonics are just a shell that has good pressure but a very low speed. i think the next subsonic load would be the 36g load. i think it uses vectan A1. i think its possable to sort out a 34g load, but in all honesty, you`d spend more time developing the load than shooting it, but that still doesnt gaurentee it`ll still cycle your gun. you need an efficient load, to, get speed, low shot to shot variation, and to only put gasses into the hushpower system, inneficient loads throws unburnt powder in them, cakes up and fills it with gunk. hard to clean off after a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon slayer Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 does your gun cycle with gas or inertia? you could try some vectan AS subsonics first. untill you try them you wont know if they`ll cycle the gun. the key with all cartridges is good pressure, that makes the shell burn efficient. subsonics are just a shell that has good pressure but a very low speed. i think the next subsonic load would be the 36g load. i think it uses vectan A1. i think its possable to sort out a 34g load, but in all honesty, you`d spend more time developing the load than shooting it, but that still doesnt gaurentee it`ll still cycle your gun. you need an efficient load, to, get speed, low shot to shot variation, and to only put gasses into the hushpower system, inneficient loads throws unburnt powder in them, cakes up and fills it with gunk. hard to clean off after a while. thanks for all your knowlege i think my gun is gas cycled, it has a hole in the barrle for the gas. the fabarm ellgi is just like the older beretta iand it dose cycle very little louds.21gram 8 no prob. were would i find the list for the 36 grm load and can you use any shot size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Man Work Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Aw hell, this is going to get me reloading shotshells again. I have a Mossie 500 with the Hushpower tube, and had been using normal cartridges and keeping the Hushpowers from Eley for when I really needed to be quiet - I am going to have to start looking at my own subsonic reloads over the winter. (I'm not complaining!) Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Aw hell, this is going to get me reloading shotshells again. I have a Mossie 500 with the Hushpower tube, and had been using normal cartridges and keeping the Hushpowers from Eley for when I really needed to be quiet - I am going to have to start looking at my own subsonic reloads over the winter. (I'm not complaining!) Cheers reload #4s just to try, buy a kilo and just load them. untill you do you wont know what you`re missing. most traditional game loads are slow, for the light guns. the big shotsize at 1000fps patterns beutifully. so good, i`ve reloaded just that cartridge. i have a reloader set up just for that. its that good. dont use a 6, just go for the 4, you get the same power as a 1300fps #6 at 40 yards. exept without the fringes of the pattern being disrupted. its my favourite cartridge, ever since i pattern tested it. full patterns out of a 1/4 choke too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbers Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Just back from shooting 80 Cookoff's subs at clays using no6 shot. Small problem with this last batch, the recoil is so low that the second barrel on my Nikko O/U isn't always cocked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 reload #4s just to try, buy a kilo and just load them. untill you do you wont know what you`re missing. most traditional game loads are slow, for the light guns. the big shotsize at 1000fps patterns beutifully. so good, i`ve reloaded just that cartridge. i have a reloader set up just for that. its that good. dont use a 6, just go for the 4, you get the same power as a 1300fps #6 at 40 yards. exept without the fringes of the pattern being disrupted. its my favourite cartridge, ever since i pattern tested it. full patterns out of a 1/4 choke too. Cookoff, how do they pattern out of a tighter choke ? I ask because the Hushpower 500 is recommended to have a tight choke fitted to avoid shot clipping the moderator. The Mossy 500 comes with a full choke fitted as standard. They also recommend felt wads because plastic wads can apparently open up in the mod ( although this has never caused me a problem ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 i actually dont know, how the load patterns with a tighter choke, i cant really assume it would be tighter, but comparing carts i had, was the rio 7.5 1oz sport 1300fps covered the 1.5m x 1.5m shot plate, the pattern edging was non linear, so the pattern rapidly thinned out. but i shot my cartridges in a 1/4 of the plate and patterned about the size of my 2 hands together. about 1ft squared. the pattern even at the edges was dense, there was no thinning. also no flyers. i cant say the pattern would be too degraded to be un usable with full chokes. essentially iff the cartridge doesnt pattern dont use it. but it is a common fact push lead to 1200 to start opening up the pattern, as the shot is very slow, its down on 1/4 the speed, i assume the shot is less damaged going through firing cycle, end of chamber - forcing cones, choke, etc. you`d want any fibre, felt, cork, wad. essentially to reduce the plastic getting caught up. although for the reduced recoil and performance makes them severely pleasing to shoot. the #4 shot was used because i wanted slightly more energy at 40yards than a 1300fps #6 at 40yards... so at 40yards, my cartridges have just slightly more energy. i used the shotsize to increase the energy per pellet to target. my subs have less energy than a standard load, at 0 yards, but maintains what minimal energy it has to beat the #6 in the energy game over 40 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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