Orkney

[Spaniel]

Just wondering if anyone as been wildfowling in Orkney.

A few of us are thinking about booking up for a few days next year.

Prices seem quite reasonable, obviously a bit of a trip but it looks well worth the travel time etc just to experiance that number of birds...

 

Cheers

[hawkeye]

Just be careful who you book with mag357 and kdubya and another mate went up to Orkney the beginning of December they travelled up on the Wednesday and travelled back on the Sunday had 3 days shooting consisting of 6 flights and were very disappointed to say the least..

Picked a guide who took them to the same spot most of the time and on the last day they never even had a shot...

Trip cost £800 each that cover digs fuel ferry and goose flights...

Took 13hrs travel to get back because of the weather.. :angry:

[samboy]

Take a hot water bottle with you. Iv'e been up there twice, not shooting just on holiday.

Was a tad nippy.

[Spaniel]

Thanks Hawkeye I will drop them a PM I think

 

Cheers

[Sprackles]

Pole star on here is a local to Orkney.

Might be worth asking him.

[Spaniel]

Thanks for that, will drop him a pm also

[aldivalloch]

The Orkney situation is a convoluted and unhappy one. Difficult to know where to start.

 

Perhaps it's worthing stating at the outset that in recent years there has been virtually no formal shooting in Orkney - it's all rough-shooting and wildfowling (and I use the term "wildfowling" loosely, as in fact most duck- and goose-shooting is done inland, away from the foreshore).

 

A consequence of the lack of any formal scene is that shooting has hitherto had no real monetary value, and so it is that casual access has long prevailed - a word with the landowner to get permission and on you go, gratis. Sadly, some people, both locals and visitors, continue to fail to observe this basic courtesy and so unauthorised shooting is far from uncommon, but little is done to counter it.

 

Fifty years ago the winter goose poulation in Orkney was very small; in the interim it has grown like Topsy, and now in excess of 75,000 birds descend upon the islands in late autumn. Not surprisingly, Orkney's farmers do not much look forward to their arrival as they cause significant damage. Inevitably, this means that the agricultural community sees geese in much the same light as it saw rabbits in pre-mixomatosis days - as vermin.

 

Now, if one combines ease of access with the farmers' desire to encourage maximum reduction of the goose population, whether by local or visiting 'fowlers, one arrives at a situation whereby a number of sportsmen are shooting over the same pieces of land. Very few landowners make any attempt at monitoring who is on their land, at what times, and at what intensity, with obvious consequences - recently I have heard a few spine-chilling anecdotes about fowlers finding, in the half-light of dawn, that they were well within gunshot of well-concealed fellow shooters with whom they didn't expect to be sharing their morning's sport.....

 

It is only in comparatively recent times that fowlers "fae sooth" and from further afield have started to go up "on safari" and this has given rise to professional guiding. Now, I don't know enough about the individual guides to be able to comment with any authority; however, it seems to be the case that there have already been some unpleasant incidents around land-rivalry. There have also been reports, some substantiated after intervention from the authorities, that illegal electronic callers have been used. It may even also be the case that protected species have been deliberately shot.

 

And, of course, stories continue to circulate about big "bags" obtained with the assistance of guides who do not impose limits. I recently heard of one party which allegedly killed more than two hundred geese on one trip. That's more than twenty geese per gun. I wonder what they did with them? Sadly, I am sure they were encouraged by the host farmer who saw it only as a welcome reduction in the "grass-guzzlers" which were ruining his fields. Even more sadly, I know it to be fact that some farmers, desperate to control the goose population, have been shooting relentlessly and just dumping the dead birds.

 

So what are the potential consequences of all this?

 

Will the police at some point have to deal with the land-rivalry? Heated arguments and loaded shotguns are a bad mix.

 

Will someone accidentally be shot by another wildfowler, who will then plead that he didn't know his victim was there?

 

Will the general public become aware of the big bags and/or the dumping of carcases, and cry out in righteous protest?

 

Will the hard-pressed geese, tired of being constantly harassed and shot at, vote with their wings, overfly Orkney, and put an end to what might, if properly regulated, have become a useful and lucrative adjunct to the local tourist industry?

 

Who knows!

 

But if you do decide to go up, Spaniel, take great care with your arrangements and choose your guide and your accommodation carefully. Ask the former whether he or she is registered with BASC and properly insured; whether there will be bag-limits; how much ground is available; whether access is exclusive or at least regulated in the interests of safety; and whether authority to shoot has been expressly granted by the landowner.

 

Best wishes to all for 2012.

[kdubya]

aldivalloch

 

Your post really makes sense,and gives me a better understanding of the politics of goose shooting on Orkney at the moment.

 

I have just had a trip up to Orkney (will have a trip up in the summer just for a look around looked a wonderful place)I had looked forward to my trip all year, not for big bags but for decent sport and a break away from work and routine,I was very much disappointed and disheartened?

 

During my short trip there I sensed an unease from our guide, I gained the impression from him that he was being priced off land and that any land he still had other shooters also had access to, and were liable to be on it before we got there? each day the guide had us out hours before time and was constantly looking for lamps in the fields or cars parking up indicating someone had beaten him to it or where coming,he kept on saying "we need to beat the locals to it" the area we shot on could have been covered by a postage stamp. we shot the same field from the same spot two days in a row and the same splash on an eve flight twice in a row, on the third day he tried "somewhere else" we never had a shot between us both flights, you could sense the unease he had before we even set up?

 

Anyway the guide came across to me ( my colleagues felt different) a fairly genuine bloke who was seeing his livelihood threatened and any long-term security non existent, I and my mates will in all probability will not go back to Orkney for the geese, which is a shame as I felt the place was "different" and Orkney in reality could do with the money the likes of us spent.

 

ATB KW

[aldivalloch]

kdubya

 

I'm really sorry to hear that your trip was a let-down. Sadly, I think your experience has to stand as a warning to anyone else who has high expectations for a 'fowling trip to Orkney, given the current circumstances.

 

As I said in my previous post, I don't know enough about any of the guides to pass judgement upon them. However, I think I can safely say that very few - if any - of them will have much in the way of exclusive access to land, and I wouldn't rate highly their chances of securing such a thing. This is because Orkney is a small community and farmers and landowners are unlikely to have much appetite for barring the friends, relatives, neighbours, employees and business contacts who have shot over their land for donkey's years.

 

I can quote from personal experience of this - a farmer on whose land I have permission to shoot told me a couple of years ago that he had been approached by a guide who promised spot payments (in cash!) for access to goose shooting. My farmer friend accepted the offer on the basis that the guide was obviously charging his guests for his services and should therefore expect to have to share his good fortune. However, he made it abundantly clear that their arrangement could never, and would never, impinge upon the rights of the locals who already had permission to shoot there and would continue to do so.

 

Your account of your guide's efforts to get you out and about before the locals - and, possibly, his competitors - makes for uncomfortable reading. It does indeed smack of a man trying to protect his livelihood in difficult circumstances. However, it has to be said that he has chosen to enter into guiding as a business, and so must seek to overcome any factors affecting his capacity to conduct that business in such a way as to give value for money to his guests. It is clear that for the duration of your visit he was unable to do so due to circumstances that he was unable - and probably will never be able - to control. He needs to see this as a major - and potentially insuperable - obstacle to the viability of his enterprise.

 

One last matter before I take myself off to bed:- what might be the legal consequences of a shooting accident involving separate parties whose guides have handed over money to a landowner in return for permission to shoot upon his land? I have no knowledge of the law, but I wonder whether the landowner might be deemed, by dint of accepting financial payment, to have assumed some responsibility for the health and safety of persons entering upon his land for sporting purposes. Food for thought?

 

Goodnight!

[Spaniel]

Thanks guys for your feedback via post, pm and phone calls.

At present it looks like we are planning our trip for the end of Nov, but I am just going to double confirm that we are only going to be shooting where our guide as single shooting rights, to avoid any nasty accidents etc

[RossEM]

Aldivalloch - I have a good friend up in Orkney who told me recently that some Italian visitors had been prosecuted for using an electronic caller and killing curlew on Hundland - this may be the same incident you're referring to. I'm not sure if they were guided or not, but it's true there are a lot of opportunist guides there, and a lot of skybusters.

The last time I went goose shooting in Orkney I shot 5 all week, still had the time of my life. If someone is doing a pest control job, fair enough but for me it's not about numbers.