gixer1 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) If we're talking about off-roading, rather than driving up someone's gravel drive, the chances are we're talking about Discovery 1's. They have the same axles as the Defender, but with tyres (just under) 4" smaller, as standard. The diff is 2" closer to the ground. That is less ground clearance. The approach angle of a Disco 1 compared to a Defender is poor. The departure angle is cronic in comparison. It's compounded by the fact, that the fuel tank is sat behind the rear axle, waiting to get hammered by the rocky step you've just dropped off. This is why people bobtail Disco's and Rangey's (it's not shortening the wheelbase as suggested earlier, it's lopping the ar$e end off). If you keep getting Disco 1's soggy, they rust out, massively (even faster than normal). The base of the A, B or C pillars. The boot floor. The sills. This isn't helped by the sound deadening under the carpets which holds water for months. On the up side... they can deal with most things, that a Defender can, at a third to a quarter the cost. They're also a decent size inside, and have some creature comforts. Why are we talking about disco 1's though?? :blink: there are more than a few members on this very forum who regularly use there disco 2's, 3's and 4's for offroad...and not just "gravel driveways" I'm talking bonnet deep or up to it's sills (although usually with the sills one it is in fact "stuck" ) wouldn't have made any difference if someone had stuck a decal on the back with "defender" written on it... I'm also sure while we are talking figures that a defender has a lower wading depth as standard as the last time i was on a Landrover day (this was when the 300TDi's were released) and the defenders couldn't go through some of the splash ponds! they are both great vehicles but a person is a fool if they think a defender is far far better than any other 4x4 offroad....there is very little difference when you have 4 bits of rubber touching the ground! If you like extreme offroading buy a Cuthbertson conversion, that'll make your normal defender/disco/4x4 look silly! Regards, Gixer Regards, Gixer Edited January 10, 2012 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I've talk about Disco 1's, because I'd assumed few people are rich/frivolous enough to batter the $hit out of a presentable car, worth £10k+, using it for off-roading/slinging dead animals in the back? Disco 2, 3 and 4's have just the same approach and departure angle issues as the 1's The issue is that, in most directions, the Defender will keep "4 bits of rubber touching the ground" longer than a Discovery. I have praised the Disco, for various things, at the end of my last post (something you appear to have overlooked). But, at the end of the day, it is a less capable off-road tool, than the Defender. Edited January 10, 2012 by bigjohn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Erm no……no they just dont The 3 and 4 are completely different designs so the angles are different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Edited January 10, 2012 by J@mes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olim Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I was actually comparing defenders to disco 1's as you wouldn't do the off roading i do in a disco 2,3,4. and i don't think that you could get a discovery doing this kind of thing! these are a few pictures of the light off roaring that I've done when i first got it. Edited January 10, 2012 by olim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 hahaha who's the fairy in the last pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olim Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 a discovery wouldn't keep all wheels on the ground in the 1st pic and wouldn't manage angles in the second! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I was actually comparing defenders to disco 1's as you wouldn't do the off roading i do in a disco 2,3,4. and i don't think that you could get a discovery doing this kind of thing! these are a few pictures of the light off roaring that I've done when i first got it. :lol: what a load of tripe olim....why do you assume that? Plenty of people put discovery's of all series through a lot more than that...James has just demonstrated that very well and if you search back my posts you will find a good picture of my disco bonnet deep in snow and covered in dirt...it's nothing to do with the value of the car, that's irrelevant! What a silly point... They are all designed for offroad, and a disco in some respects is better equipped that a defender as it has lots of replaceable plastic in they're lower parts instead of painted panels like a defender ... I must also congratulate that person in the pink doing the "I'm a little tea pot" dance... And James - nice pics of the D3, did it come out without tree rash? :ouch: Regards, Gixer Edited January 10, 2012 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olim Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 well I'm not too bothered about arguing but all i know is that from what I've seen discos get stuck too easily and wont do what defenders do! and i wouldn't take a disco 2,3 or 4 off roading if it was mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 hahaha who's the fairy in the last pic dont know but he's got a bit of a teapot going on there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olim Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 dont know but he's got a bit of a teapot going on there haha, I've already had these jokes as its on my Facebook but I'm sure there will be some new ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 don't get me wrong - both defender and discos are great offroad tools but I still reckon a Suzuki jimny would drive around both of them in the offroad stakes! If I had to do an overland trip across rough terrain and use a 4x4...I'd pick something from Suzuki! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 don't get me wrong - both defender and discos are great offroad tools but I still reckon a Suzuki jimny would drive around both of them in the offroad stakes! If I had to do an overland trip across rough terrain and use a 4x4...I'd pick something from Suzuki! I'd get an old school landrcruiser far better than a jimny and more powerful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) One modified discovery owning an offroad course……it's just on larger tyres and a suspension lift kit really, rollcage isnt exactly a performance mod, oh and I don't believe this ones been bobtailed :hmm: :hmm: Edited January 10, 2012 by Dr_evil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) All the Disco's (1-4) have much longer/lower rear over hangs than a Defender 90. You've shown an highly modded Disco, as proof that isn't a problem. Apply those exact same mods to Defender, at it'll be more effective 99% of the time, off-road, than the Disco. If it helps, I've got a modded Disco 1, that gets hammered off-road. I'm not blind follower of Defenders, but they are the better off road tool. Edited January 10, 2012 by bigjohn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 All the Disco's (1-4) have much longer/lower rear over hangs than a Defender 90. You've shown an highly modded Disco, as proof that isn't a problem. Apply those exact same mods to Defender, at it'll be more effective 99% of the time, off-road, than the Disco. If it helps, I've got a modded Disco 1, that gets hammered off-road. I'm not blind follower of Defenders, but they are the better off road tool. It's not really highly modified when you think about it a suspension lift and larger tyres alongside the correct castor correction radius arms, wide angle prop and snorkel, lights and rollcage are just there for protection Now wouldn't it be more worthwhile comparing a 110 to a disco given they are more similar in size ? you're kind of comparing a swb shogun to a lwb one when using the 90 as a benchmark A 90 with the same mods would be able to do the same and a bit more but the 110 would be on a par Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Cross axel air suspension keeps all wheels on the ground at all times in axel twisters. Took mine on the lro off road course and breezed through the twister where the defenders struggled. Gixer, we towed it out backwards due to the tree, could have driven out forwards but would have rubbed. No point in damaging it for the sake of it, that's for the knuckle dragging "lets offroad" brigade but I don't let the risk of damage stop me taking it places that some wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'd get an old school landrcruiser far better than a jimny and more powerful I always find the jimny is fine for power, in low box it just pulls away until the tyres lose traction, and they seem to drive over things that landrovers/landcruisers/mitsi's sink in! Regards, Gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) It's also had a large chunk of the wheel arches cut away, and plastic extensions tacked on to make good. Looking at the width of the tyres, it's possibly had to have the inner arches remodelled, too, to stop the tyres hitting, when it tips on the axles. The front bumper has been changed to give, amongst other things, a better approach angle. In summary, it's had some of the **** bits of Disco cut out of the way, to make it more like a Defender. For your benefit, I'll take back the word "highly" and use "reasonably", in relation to the level of modification, but it's a pointless discussion, once you start bring modded vehicles into the equation. As for 110's. They're longer, and their ar$e sticks out further. They are compromised off road, compared to a 90, but offer better people/load lugging. I'd still have a 110, over a Disco, as they don't rot out, as fast, and can be rebuilt, mecano-style, whatever's broken/corroded. Edited January 10, 2012 by bigjohn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 It's also had a large chunk of the wheel arches cut away, and plastic extensions tacked on to make good. Looking at the width of the tyres, it's possibly had to have the inner arches remodelled, too, to stop the tyres hitting, when it tips on the axles. The front bumper has been changed to give, amongst other things, a better approach angle. In summary, it's had some of the **** bits of Disco cut out of the way, to make it more like a Defender. For your benefit, I'll take back the word "highly" and use "reasonably", in relation to the level of modification, but it's a pointless discussion, once you start bring modded vehicles into the equation. As for 110's. They're longer, and their ar$e sticks out further. They are compromised off road, compared to a 90, but offer better people/load lugging. I'd still have a 110, over a Disco, as they don't rot out, as fast, and can be rebuilt, mecano-style, whatever's broken/corroded. Front bumpers been replaced with a winch bumper then welded onto the roll cage, all thats missing from the front is the plastic valance with the fog lights in it Inner arches are cut as are the outside as they've been trimmed to allow for the 35" tyres As to the modified comment I'll go with reasonably but bringing modification into it olims 90 looks to be on larger cooper mud tyres and small lift to give better articulation And finally as to the rust comment…..yes defenders and series's are simple to work on as I dismantled a 109 in summer…….however the rear crossmember and outriggers rot fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I was actually comparing defenders to disco 1's as you wouldn't do the off roading i do in a disco 2,3,4. and i don't think that you could get a discovery doing this kind of thing! these are a few pictures of the light off roaring that I've done when i first got it. First lesson is strap to fence posts like that and you'll be up for a nasty accident. Having been in discos round devils pit I can safely say I run out of ability before the truck did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Dr Evil - Shall we stop now, as we're in danger of agreeing? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon street Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I had I Isuzu , changed it for a discovery because the part were cost to much , best thing I ever did love my disco like the idea of a defender but I think I've got the best option for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Dr Evil - Shall we stop now, as we're in danger of agreeing? :-) hahaha yes that would be a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olim Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 That disco has been modified more than you would think, i reckon that has at least a 7 inch + lift, the shock mounts ETC would have been moved to allow for it, the wheel arches would need major mods and to fit a lift of that size would mean many many more mods that you can't see. and at the end of the day what its driving in is nothing special or challenging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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