dr_nick Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 More bad press. The owner of a record label was seriously hurt when she was accidentally shot in the neck by her son with an air rifle. Jill Sinclair, who set up ZTT Records with her husband Trevor Horn, was shot in the garden of their home near Henley, Oxfordshire, on Sunday night. A company spokesman said: "Purely accidentally she took a pellet in the neck. She is stable but critical." Ms Sinclair, 54, remains unconscious in an intensive care unit in hospital. Four children The pellet, which was fired by her 22-year-old son during a target practice session, hit an artery. The company spokesman said it was too early to tell at this stage whether Ms Sinclair would suffer brain damage from the injury. The couple have four children, three girls and a boy, and the youngest is aged 11. ZTT Records enjoyed considerable success with bands such as Frankie Goes To Hollywood and The Art of Noise. In the 1990s ZTT became a successful dance label boasting names like Seal and Adamski. Ms Sinclair, a former maths teacher, married her record producer husband 26 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bipolar Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 All we can do is keep calm as the **** falls How the hell did he shoot her in the neck? she must have been behind the target or a ricochet from a crappy backstop and very close! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancs Lad Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Either that or she walked in front of the "range"................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatingisbest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 What a complete idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirky640 Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 More bad press. The owner of a record label was seriously hurt when she was accidentally shot in the neck by her son with an air rifle. Jill Sinclair, who set up ZTT Records with her husband Trevor Horn, was shot in the garden of their home near Henley, Oxfordshire, on Sunday night. A company spokesman said: "Purely accidentally she took a pellet in the neck. She is stable but critical." Ms Sinclair, 54, remains unconscious in an intensive care unit in hospital. Four children The pellet, which was fired by her 22-year-old son during a target practice session, hit an artery. The company spokesman said it was too early to tell at this stage whether Ms Sinclair would suffer brain damage from the injury. The couple have four children, three girls and a boy, and the youngest is aged 11. ZTT Records enjoyed considerable success with bands such as Frankie Goes To Hollywood and The Art of Noise. In the 1990s ZTT became a successful dance label boasting names like Seal and Adamski. Ms Sinclair, a former maths teacher, married her record producer husband 26 years ago. who cares accidents happen!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Accidents like that don't "just happen". One of the most important rules of gun safety is "never point a gun at anyone". Safe practice with any gun is to make sure you have an adequate safe place to use it, with an appropriate backstop - crucially you should not shoot at a target or anything else which could cause a richocet. So, lets just say this chap was doing all of these things, how did this happen? Exactly. Collins define accident as :- "an unexpected event which causes damage or harm. something which happens without planning or intention" If you take the precautions above whilst shooting, then you won't shoot anyone, much less in the neck. If you don't take the precautions then you are negligent and it wasn't an accident, by definition. I don't want to seem heartless and my best wishes go out to this unfortunate lady and I wish her a full and speedy recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I can’t understand how he didn’t know that she was near by- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/5119654.stm G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il cacciatore Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 When will parents realise that airguns are not toys? Wonder what age her son is? Wonder if the police will prosecute him for being an idiot? If only being an idiot was against the law these things wouldnt happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 When will parents realise that airguns are not toys? Wonder what age her son is? Wonder if the police will prosecute him for being an idiot? If only being an idiot was against the law these things wouldnt happen. It says he was 22 in the bbc.co.uk story linked in the thread. At one time I would have taken that as gospel from the bbc, now I guess you have to make up your own mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il cacciatore Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Right so he is old enough to have known better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Yep, but to be honest the age thing doesn't matter to me. I got my first gun when I was 10 or something and my dad taught me all of the basics of good gun handling and safety right back then. There is no substitute for good practice and its so entrenched into my bahaviours I don't think I could ever "make a mistake" with a gun. Its just so very basic, follow the simple rules and treat every gun like its loaded and might go off and you won't go far wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 More bad press. The owner of a record label was seriously hurt when she was accidentally shot in the neck by her son with an air rifle. Jill Sinclair, who set up ZTT Records with her husband Trevor Horn, was shot in the garden of their home near Henley, Oxfordshire, on Sunday night. A company spokesman said: "Purely accidentally she took a pellet in the neck. She is stable but critical." Ms Sinclair, 54, remains unconscious in an intensive care unit in hospital. Four children The pellet, which was fired by her 22-year-old son during a target practice session, hit an artery. The company spokesman said it was too early to tell at this stage whether Ms Sinclair would suffer brain damage from the injury. The couple have four children, three girls and a boy, and the youngest is aged 11. ZTT Records enjoyed considerable success with bands such as Frankie Goes To Hollywood and The Art of Noise. In the 1990s ZTT became a successful dance label boasting names like Seal and Adamski. Ms Sinclair, a former maths teacher, married her record producer husband 26 years ago. who cares accidents happen!!! he has a point there. When will parents realise that airguns are not toys? Wonder what age her son is? Wonder if the police will prosecute him for being an idiot? If only being an idiot was against the law these things wouldnt happen. he was 22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirky640 Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Safe practice with any gun is to make sure you have an adequate safe place to use it, with an appropriate backstop - crucially you should not shoot at a target or anything else which could cause a richocet. then no one will ever shoot a .22 rifle again as they richocet all the time specialy when shooting rabbits, it only takes a small stone cheers kirky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Judging by the power that was in the pellet I think it’s pretty safe to assume that this was no ricochet. This was a shot that was taken directly from the air rifle, and at close range as well by the look of things. No, methinks that this was the result of messing about and the rifle being discharged accidentally, and with disastrous results. This just goes to show how we, the good guys, get shafted by the silly burgers who have no wish to learn about safety or vermin control or even competition. This was a little rich kid who was allowed to mess about with a powerful air rifle without any knowledge of how they work or how dangerous they are in the wrong hands. Now we will have to wait until the mother gets well enough to be interviewed by the press….at which point she will no doubt demand the banning of these dangerous weapons. It’s always the same isn’t it; the eejits who cause all the trouble are never the ones to take the backlash. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jonrms Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 it is a real shame. my opionion is that of some others... they must have been messing around..... or being very suspicious intensional. I am worried that with this downward trend that they will reduce air rifles to 6lbs of pressure.... making them useless for hunting rabbits etc. I just hope the family are ok. there is most likely more to this story than is being told.... ( as some of you know i dont believe everything in the press) gun safety is cruicial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiiish1987 Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 There's been alot of bad press about airguns recently. Only a couple of days ago there were four kids on a local footpath shooting at members of the public. There were 2 police helicopters and many men on the ground looking for them yet they wern't found. Its idiots like these people who are going to cause the law to get tighter on lawful airgunners like us because of a very small minority of stupid gun owners. I think it is also partially due to shops like army surplus stores selling chinese rifles without even questioning age! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bipolar Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 There's been alot of bad press about airguns recently. Only a couple of days ago there were four kids on a local footpath shooting at members of the public. There were 2 police helicopters and many men on the ground looking for them yet they wern't found. Its idiots like these people who are going to cause the law to get tighter on lawful airgunners like us because of a very small minority of stupid gun owners. I think it is also partially due to shops like army surplus stores selling chinese rifles without even questioning age! I agree, I also wouldn't object to some form of licensing also, not as stringent as FAC or SGC but still a hurdle as a deterrent, may be something along the lines of the Fishing licence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 It would be pointless to have the licence as easy to get a fishing licence. Why should air rifles be licenced? They could have a licence like the SGC which has no restrictions on ammount of guns or conditions of use. I for one would be for it as it would go a long way to stopping ****heads like this just buying a rifle and shooting what they shouldn't Cheers Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiiish1987 Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Well i'm surprised there isn't one at the moment. a few times i've been aproached by walkers and have been asked if i need a licence for my rifle. Also I would like to point out that contradicting to what i last posted i think the police are too lenient on checking us. The other day i was out shooting at my shoot (which is near to a road (although far enough away from it to be safe especially as the road is elivated 12ft above the shoot)), and a police car stopped, watched me for a minute, then shouted at me "have you got permission to shoot that thing here?". I replied yes and he drove off! Now i'm no expert when it comes to other types of shooting but how can you tell a bsa lightning from a proper deer hunting jobbie at 100yrds? also i didn't even produce my permission, i just said yes and he drove off! no poacher in their right mind would say no, yet apparently saying yes is as good as having it on paper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancs Lad Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Would dissagree with you there....I got stopped twice in 1 week on my shoot. Plod took gun off me,,,,,,,had a look, I made a call to the land owner and job done... Off they went. Im all for restricting air gun use. Trouble is, I bet if they pull this type of idoit, you will find that its a cheap as chips gun, bought from a fishing tackle shop or somewhere else.. Ban 40 quid air guns. Ban ANY type of shop selling them other than a gun shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 I thought about posting suggesting licencing for air weapons but thinking about it I don't really agree with it in priciple. I am talking about sub 12ft/lbs weapons here. The categorisation of air weapons according to the law puts them as "non lethal" as it stands today. There is a review underway by the Home Affairs Committee at the moment which may place some of the air weapons available without a licence within the remit of the FEO's and therfore requiring a licence. It may be that we have been afforded a liberty which society has chosen to abuse and therefore there is no way forward but to licence and restrict sale of these weapons. I for one belive that would be a sad day for us all, and our sport. Most people get into air weapons for a couple of reasons, you don't need any certificate, they are cheap as is the ammunition. This means that shooters can learn the craft earlier, parents don't have massive hassles obtaining one and it doesn't have to cost a fortune. This all falls to bits if people mis-use them and I think the onus is on organisations like the BASC etc to do more to encourage safe airgun use. They do a lot already, but instead of just licencing and probably killing off this kind of shooting, why not :- Introduce a system whereby new purchasers of air weapons must attend a local club and pass a safety course before being allowed to possess one? The BASC can promote its services and gain footprint, local clubs can recieve a small fee for the service and all new airgunners will end up starting off on the right foot. They at the very least have somewhere to use it in safety, rather than wandering off to try and shoot cows or something. It doesn't stop abuse by the determinted, but then neither would licencing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiiish1987 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 "Trouble is, I bet if they pull this type of idoit, you will find that its a cheap as chips gun, bought from a fishing tackle shop or somewhere else.. Ban 40 quid air guns. Ban ANY type of shop selling them other than a gun shop." I bet your right there. Theres an army surplus here that sells alot of smk's range, along with crossbows catapults knives and for some reason they've got an f16 fighter pilots helmet! Theres a local fishing shop "Reels and deals that sells b2's and g10's. My brothers friend is 16 and has bought rifles from both without any questioning from the owners. The trouble with these shops is that they buy cheap **** and add £20 onto it. in the end they're just in it for profit and would probably sell a rifle to a 12yr old just for the profit. Saying that, I don't think it is age that is causing the bad press. I think it is more of a question of maturity than age. An immature 20yr old is more dangerous with an air rifle that a mature 14yr old. So i agree that you should have to go to a local club and pass some sort of test before you can own a gun. Then the club should fail you if they feel you would be a risk to the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bipolar Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 This all falls to bits if people mis-use them and I think the onus is on organisations like the BASC etc to do more to encourage safe airgun use. They do a lot already, but instead of just licencing and probably killing off this kind of shooting, why not :- Introduce a system whereby new purchasers of air weapons must attend a local club and pass a safety course before being allowed to possess one? The BASC can promote its services and gain footprint, local clubs can recieve a small fee for the service and all new airgunners will end up starting off on the right foot. They at the very least have somewhere to use it in safety, rather than wandering off to try and shoot cows or something. It doesn't stop abuse by the determinted, but then neither would licencing. To prove that you attended would require a Certificate/voucher of some description to exchange for an airweapon sounds like a licence to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiiish1987 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Perhaps they should increase the severity of punishment when it comes to airguns?! In the end it shouldn't effect us if we continue to be lawful airgunners! perhaps chucking them into a grotty cell and throwing away the key! or deport them to somewhere like.....France! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 To prove that you attended would require a Certificate/voucher of some description to exchange for an airweapon sounds like a licence to me Well I suppose it does. But it keeps the admin out of the FEO's hands which to be fair they wouldn't be able to handle without significant extra funding, which we all know won't come and would end up just classifying them as section one firearms - which would be the end of it. Yes a certificate, but without all the hassle of getting referees and all the admin. Gets people into the clubs, shows them the way and develops the sport. I agree only RFD's should sell air weapons and they should use the good sense they have to police the sale. Given the number of air weapons in circulation you will never stop this kind of thing happening, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try, does it? Make it compulsory to obtain insurance, and just like taxing a car, make it such that you can't obtain insurance without a certificate of competency. Would give the oportunity to note down who has which rifles, which can't be a bad thing. It would also give the police the power to demand to see insurance documentation, if you don't have it the gun is siezed on the spot with a £50 fine for its return. Money in the coffers, no legit users would mind leaving the idots and louts to be dealt with. Its sad its come to this really, but as has already been said, its the idiot few spoiling it for the overwhelming majority of sensible airgunners. If the papers printed stories about people NOT shooting each other in the neck it would go some way to negating these steps, but like thats going to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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