al4x Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 fit in your pocket while you are out with a shotgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 So youre saying that their for just killing deer not deer control or stalking. I.E Humane Despatch? If **** would seem NJC has the best idea with a combi gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bi9johnny Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'll be honest, I read the thread and thought the same. This is a video taken from another thread about slug (surprisingly accurate over great distance and still packs a punch) ; huffhuff have you watched this video how can you say it's accurate at that distance he clearly states he cannot see if he's hit it until he gets closer to it... he keeps saying that he hopes he's hitting it and that if it was a fat terrorist he would of hit it :lol: as the spread was quite wide they maybe accurate at much closer quarters but certainly not as the video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 The thing i would say is why do you need one? What will a shotgun slug do that a suitable centerfire rifle cant? 1 less gun to buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 huffhuff have you watched this video how can you say it's accurate at that distance he clearly states he cannot see if he's hit it until he gets closer to it... he keeps saying that he hopes he's hitting it and that if it was a fat terrorist he would of hit it :lol: as the spread was quite wide they maybe accurate at much closer quarters but certainly not as the video Youd get a tighter group with a decent centerfire rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 So youre saying that their for just killing deer not deer control or stalking. I.E Humane Despatch? If **** would seem NJC has the best idea with a combi gun. not in the slightest as that suits his requirements but its a limited one, no one would go pigeon shooting or game shooting with a combi gun I'd hope. For shooting running large game a shotgun has its plus points over a rifle and energy wise at close range they will drop most things. The humane despatch is one reason but a small one look to europe and you will see their use is far more widespread, but they do like driven game. Here examples could well be deer in foresty blocks and heavy cover but its pretty frowned on by the BDS etc so most people don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 The thing i would say is why do you need one? What will a shotgun slug do that a suitable centerfire rifle cant? Rather, at mediun ranges what will a rifle do that a slug can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Charlie, what would you call medium range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Youd get a tighter group with a decent centerfire rifle. No one is sugesting using slugs at +200 yds on deer. As I said, at 100 yds I get groups good enough to pass the DSC1. I suspect the practical guys get much better groups then I do. Why argue against something you have no knowledge of or are not willing to open your mind to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Mainly because i think deer deserve to be killed quickly and cleanly. If you can do that with a 12g and slugs fair enough. What i would not like to see is them being used in place of rifles especially from less than proficent people and therefore seing deer who have been hit and not killed cleanly. Do these expand BTW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I have shot a number of white tail deer in the states using slugs . In new York state you couldn't use a rifle on deer and had to use a shot gun with slugs . The slugs are very ,very deadly on deer and accurate enough at 100 yards . Most of the deer I shot over there was from a high seat and the ranges varied from 15 to 80 yards . I did shoot a nice buck from very close to 100 yards ,a perfect heart and lung shot ,the beast was dead before he hit the ground . At the closer ranges the 12 bore slug is as deadly as any cent re fire rifle . Incidently I was using a remmy 1100 with standard shot gun sights . Harnser . Edited March 9, 2012 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Charlie, what would you call medium range? I knew you'd pick me up on that, I used the word "medium" so as not to pin myself down !!. Personally I am more than happy, or should I say comfortable, taking deer up to 100 yds. It's the old scenario of acceptable "kill" area. On fox its reckoned to be 1.5" on deer 4" and lets say with rabbits 1". As long as your kit can acheive that sort of grouping at the distance you are shooting at it's good enough. I would no way argue that slugs replace a stalking rifle and indeed, if I'm going out specifically to stalk I will take a rifle. However if I'm about my daily work, when I always keep a gun behind the seat of the Land Rover or tractor, I prefer to take a shotgun as a do it all Jobie as I find there ain't much it wont deal with from the odd magpie, fox's skulking amongst the lambs through to dissuading 40/50+ hinds and stags from munching on and refusing to leave my much valued mowing grass. As I said, I'm amazed some don't realise how versatile a shotgun is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I must agree with Charlie that the shot gun is the most versatile gun you could have . With the right cartridge you can humanely kill just about every thing on the planet including very large and dangerous game . A shot gun is more point able than a rifle particularly on moving game . I cannot see any reason why a shot gun and slugs cannot be used in this county for the legit able stalking of deer ,OK you will have to get closer and the long range boys will have to learn a bit of field craft and get in closer . May be not the ideal gun for the Scottish hills but for lowland stalking and for woodland stalking the shot gun is perfect . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 As has been said by others slugs are a very effective method of bringing down Deer or indeed any large game. I have used them in various locations, but have never shot anything further than 60 meters. I believe they can be used further but would not wish to do so myself. The question by the OP has been answered by others indeed as has been mentioned by al4x: S.7 of the Deer Act 1991 provides that it must not be less than a 12 bore. It may only be used by the occupier of the land and other specific categories of person when damage is being done by deer of the same species that are being shot. For example, it would not be legal to shoot roe with a shotgun if the serious damage was being inflicted by Muntjac. As to ammunition for the shotgun, this must either be rifled slug of not less than 22.68 grammes (350 grains) or AAA shot. To add to that you are NOT allowed to shoot them using said tactics unless they are in the area where the damage has occurred and you are NOT allowed to ambush them between the damage site and any holding cover. This method is only to be used when all other preventative methods have been exhausted. Basically if you are out on the ground shooting on a syndicate day and a Muntjac gets up to your front, you are NOT allowed to take a shot at said Munti with your 32gram of 5 shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 As has been said by others slugs are a very effective method of bringing down Deer or indeed any large game. I have used them in various locations, but have never shot anything further than 60 meters. I believe they can be used further but would not wish to do so myself. The question by the OP has been answered by others indeed as has been mentioned by al4x: S.7 of the Deer Act 1991 provides that it must not be less than a 12 bore. It may only be used by the occupier of the land and other specific categories of person when damage is being done by deer of the same species that are being shot. For example, it would not be legal to shoot roe with a shotgun if the serious damage was being inflicted by Muntjac. As to ammunition for the shotgun, this must either be rifled slug of not less than 22.68 grammes (350 grains) or AAA shot. To add to that you are NOT allowed to shoot them using said tactics unless they are in the area where the damage has occurred and you are NOT allowed to ambush them between the damage site and any holding cover. This method is only to be used when all other preventative methods have been exhausted. Basically if you are out on the ground shooting on a syndicate day and a Muntjac gets up to your front, you are NOT allowed to take a shot at said Munti with your 32gram of 5 shot. I'm interested in the part of your statement above regarding ambushing. As I often ambush marauding deer on their return to cover and indeed when they are moving from one area of gorse to another so would be interested in exactly which section of the deer act prohibits such tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I knew you'd pick me up on that, I used the word "medium" so as not to pin myself down !!. I wasn't looking to pin you down, more interested in the accuracy on slugs at given distances. I have only ever seen boar shot with slugs at close to medium (that word again ) range I wasn't aware they could hold such accuracy further out. Although it needs practice I still think the rifle is the best tool for close/medium/long[er] range running stuff. I took my first deer running a couple of weeks ago and even that needed a lot more lead than I thought it would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm interested in the part of your statement above regarding ambushing. As I often ambush marauding deer on their return to cover and indeed when they are moving from one area of gorse to another so would be interested in exactly which section of the deer act prohibits such tactics. Charlie, You are quite right I can't find the mention either, I don't know where I got from but seem to have this information lodged in my head from somewhere. I may have got it from a meeting or a discussion or indeed when I think about it, I may be getting mixed up with the permission to shoot Deer out of season Licence. I will now need to find out where or it will bug me all night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 No one is sugesting using slugs at +200 yds on deer. As I said, at 100 yds I get groups good enough to pass the DSC1. I suspect the practical guys get much better groups then I do. Why argue against something you have no knowledge of or are not willing to open your mind to. Yes your right Charlie...a good few years ago I have done the same at a 100yds. That was with Brenneke Fluted Slugs, & the gun was a Mossberg Slugster, with flip sights. Whether you could get the same accuracy with SxS, or an O/U with choke I couldn't comment..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Charlie, I now know where I got it from. I checked my DSC 1 Training manual and the statement is on page 57 paragraph: Restrictions (top of page) and it refers to killing Deer out of season for crop protection. I thought I was going mad for a bit there. dave1992, I apologise if I have caused any confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Charlie, I now know where I got it from. I checked my DSC 1 Training manual and the statement is on page 57 paragraph: Restrictions (top of page) and it refers to killing Deer out of season for crop protection. I thought I was going mad for a bit there. dave1992, I apologise if I have caused any confusion. Thanks Blunderbust for putting my mind at rest and taking the trouble to look it. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Charlie, I now know where I got it from. I checked my DSC 1 Training manual and the statement is on page 57 paragraph: Restrictions (top of page) and it refers to killing Deer out of season for crop protection. I thought I was going mad for a bit there. dave1992, I apologise if I have caused any confusion. Not being a DSC holder I can't look up exactly what the training manual actually says regarding "Section 7 out of season shooting". However, I was not aware that, as far as out of season shooting was concerned, it prohibited "ambush" and having re read the act I can find no reference prohibiting such an action. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Charlie, As I have said I agree with what you are saying about the Deer Act, but I can assure you that the wording in the paragraph Restrictions: on page 57 of the DSC L 1 Training Manual does state, I quote: Restrictions: The occupier must have reasonable grounds to believe that deer of the same species were causing damage to crops including grass, fruit, vegetables or timber and that further damage was likely to be caused and would be serious. Other methods had been tried to prevent such damage and that killing deer was the only method left to prevent such damage. The killing must take place at the site of the damage and the Deer cannot be "ambushed" between the site and holding cover. If a shotgun is to be used it must be 12 bore or larger, using AAA shot only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Not questioning you Blunderbust and it is interesting to read the manuals take on the Deer Act. I would be interested to know where they gleaned their information from, obviously not the Act itself. More likely the BDS who, as we know, would like to see section 7 abolished and have therefore rewritten the act to suit their own agenda. Quite how they have the audacity to publish fiction as fact in a training manual is another question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1992 Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Thanks for the Info Blunderbust, the whole subject confuses me aha. As one other member mentioned that if we dont expand our understanding of things, then its a chance to miss out on something. As i only have my SGC at the moment i was looking into ways of making my shotgun more versatile, as i work on a fishery with woodland, water and open ground, i was wondering what different methods of control can be used if say i were to see deer on the estate and if it would be handy to get a semi auto again and always carry a few slugs. The only other thing i have thought is getting a .410 and haing some slugs for that for foxes as a farmer i know has a lot of foxes, and lambing at this time of year may be a bonus to help him out when he doesnt have the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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