Bfrog Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Hi guys, I have a sealed flask of Vectan AO and another 1/4 full flask. The question is what can I use it for. Apart from a 9g .410 load of FCs I can't find a 12b load. Well not strictly true I have found a 1 1/2oz load but it uses a uniwad or a T42 wad. The down side is these wads are no longer in production. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I use AO for 28gram 20gauge loads and it's great for it Apparently there is some 'old' AO still about that has different characteristics and shouldn't be used with the latest data. New AO is pale green squares with dark yellow squares mixed in as a marker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfrog Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) The stuff I have is a shiny green with a brownish trace flake. I don't have a 20b but it might be a reason to get one Edited April 12, 2012 by Bfrog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Hi mate, Somewhere around the flask there should be a sign which reproduce the year (i.e. /11, -11 or simply 2011. Vectan A0, as said, has been changed numerous times in recent years and you may find one batch is more vivacious (ignite faster. If yours is recent (say, 2010 onwards), you can load it as follow: 70mm plastic Fiocchi 616 1.90x40 stellare 70 plastic 616/cx2000 1,80/1,85 x 39/40 70 plastic 684/cx50 1,90/1,95 x 42 these are nice, although heavy, loads and should be loaded with care and they should be finished at 59.7mm (for 40gr or below) and 59,9/60mm (for loads above 40gr) Cheers, Franco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfrog Posted April 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Cheers for the info Franco. The label on the bottom of the flask only appears to be a batch code. I got the powder with a used loading press so I don't have any idea how old it is but It must be before 2010. I think I may aswell bin it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Check this out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Hi mate, Somewhere around the flask there should be a sign which reproduce the year (i.e. /11, -11 or simply 2011. Vectan A0, as said, has been changed numerous times in recent years and you may find one batch is more vivacious (ignite faster. If yours is recent (say, 2010 onwards), you can load it as follow: 70mm plastic Fiocchi 616 1.90x40 stellare 70 plastic 616/cx2000 1,80/1,85 x 39/40 70 plastic 684/cx50 1,90/1,95 x 42 these are nice, although heavy, loads and should be loaded with care and they should be finished at 59.7mm (for 40gr or below) and 59,9/60mm (for loads above 40gr) Cheers, Franco what psi are those loads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 That is 'OLD' A0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfrog Posted April 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Thank you to FC and sitsinheadges. So would the loads on the Nobel page be sutable for old AO then or only the new stuff ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Thank you to FC and sitsinheadges. So would the loads on the Nobel page be sutable for old AO then or only the new stuff ? The data on the Nobel page would be for new AO. Maybe Floating Chamber or someone else has data for the old stuff that they would be prepared to share, it would be a shame to waste it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipper Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 The data on the Nobel page would be for new AO. Maybe Floating Chamber or someone else has data for the old stuff that they would be prepared to share, it would be a shame to waste it. Vetcan powder Homeloader 1985 33grains Ao GLwad 1/38 LEAD This is lightest load in 12g also got loads for 20g Dipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 That is 'OLD' A0. And very good for slow heavy lead loads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 And very good for slow heavy lead loads True! In the trade, it was called A142 (42 gram) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 what psi are those loads? 70mm plastic Fiocchi 616 1.90x40 70 plastic 616/cx2000 1,80/1,85 x 39/40 70 plastic 684/cx50 1,90/1,95 x 42 data show they varay between Pmax 854 bar V1: 421 m/s and Pmax: 730 bar V1 405 This depends on the recipe you decide to load.....you can always test each load against the crows.... Cheers, Franco Sorry mate, it's all in metrics but is Sat night and can't do the mat the now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfrog Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Not a problem I can work with metric. So what wad do these loads use, unless I missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 854bar is approx 12,252psi. that exceeds both cip and saami specs. that is 700psi more than saami, and 1500psimore than cip (estimated 2.75" case) that is seriously "not good" cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Not a problem I can work with metric. So what wad do these loads use, unless I missed it. sorry mate, forgot to add this wee dtail it's all plastic wads between 15 and 22 mm high, depending on brands: B&P 19 = Gualandi 18 B&P 22 = Gualandi 21 can't remember specifically for each load but you can try, remember to leave at least 0.9mm for a star crimp. Cheers, Franco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 854bar is approx 12,252psi. that exceeds both cip and saami specs. that is 700psi more than saami, and 1500psimore than cip (estimated 2.75" case) that is seriously "not good" cook. are you sure? as barrels are al tested for 1050 bar, so, that's not too high down my neck of the wood. Especially thinking that all high performance shell from official producer are around that specs. will get more data up as soon as I get home (ps consider that a change in wad from Gualandi to B&P will redcue the pressure of 30/40 bar) cheers F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 12,386 psi, that exceeds saami specs and CIP regulations. that is one hot cartridge. why oh why would you load up to that ? or 1050? thats 15,228 psi ! the 12gauge 3.5" should have a max pressure of 14,000psi ! if the magic isnt going to happen at 11500 psi, 15,228psi isnt going to change diddley, what is the point of going to that high pressure? seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Right Cook, I understand where you're coming from and appreciate that it seems 'off' from your point of view. However, I wish to reiterate that normal barrels are proofed for shooting nearly double the pressure (for non toxic)and my loads can be cosidered semi-magnum. Why? well, where I come from,for certain form of shooting, you have to take long shots so you have to shoot a considerable amount of lead at a certain distance with a nice speed to allow a clean kill. From your point of view, of courst, it may sound odd, but to go duck shooting you don't normally go under 38-40 gr I use this rule of thumb when experimenting new loads: 600-650bar for 30-32gr, 700-750Bar for 34-386gr. 750-800bar for 40-42gr, of course there are adjustments to make depending on materials (as i said, changing the wad from one brand to another can make the pressure reduce drammatically). In the end, for me, it all comes down to what the proofing data say, if the curve looks nicely formed and not spikey, a little pression won't make any differnece. Check this link, it Fiocchi original cartridges specs http://www.fiocchigfl.it/site/index.php?pag=321&prod=675 They're well over mine Cheers now, Franco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 one point is, just buy the powder that does produce a good safe curve. there is no point in over stressing a powder. the proofing issues is a troubling one, because there are multiple oppinions, such as only load to 2/3rds the proof, or keep to saami / cip. some i`ve even heard they load up to the maximum pressure there gun can take, and run all the cartridges at that. why have high pressure when a slower burnrate will give lower pressures and faster speeds? thats why there are different powders, different burnrate. i tend to load to cip, keep the pressure 740bar or less. for the 3" the same (i may push it to 11,000psi). the 3.5" (14000psi max) if the magic isnt happening at 1400psi another 1000psi is going to do nothing. i may even be expecting variation of 300psi ! even if you load to 1050 bar, the variation can take it 1200bar !. thats what is often missunderstood. but, my final sentence on the matter, the homeloader is exempt from cip and saami specs. so do what you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Hi Cook, I understand what you're saying but I can promise these loads work very well at long range and they're safe as they do not go anywhere near the 1050 bar. As for CIP and SAAMI, I've checked and can't find anything past 1992, which is a bit old, I'd appreciate if you could point me in the direction of more recent ones. Also, one curiosity (if you could help), if commercial loaders have to abide by these rules how s it possible that Fiocchi itself puts on its site the loads of shell going to 920bar? isn't that a bit odd? Please let me have the links if you don't mind....even for me safe is better than sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 page 17 http://www.cip-bobp.org/sites/default/files/new_file/A-4-1_EN.pdf got some useful info. this is dated`97. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Shotshell-Handbook-5Th-Edition/dp/B00162MK2M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK fowler Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 .Im with CF on this one the load he posted is a standard 23/4" magnum load all manufactures load to this spec ( victory mini mag,buffalo etc) not for use in non magnum (740bar) older guns safe in any gun proofed to the higher level . this is a hard hitting load for tough shooting not for shooting skeet or pigeons over decoys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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