High pheasants

[Al69ec]

At what height is a pheasant classed as a high one? And are they still sporting shots when taken at range?

[Diceman]

[MM]

At what height is a pheasant classed as a high one? And are they still sporting shots when taken at range?

 

when it needs an oxygen mask. i would imagine it depends on what is sporting to you.

[CharlieT]

It all depends on how good a shot you are. Every shot taken should be at a range that is testing but still within the guns capabilities.

 

This may be 35yds for one person but could quite possibly be 50+ yds for another.

 

I would suggest that true high birds are ones in excess of 50 yds.

[Guest cookoff013]

intresting subject.

 

gamebore did an article that interviewed the countrys top game shooters, these had some great info into how the rich / great shots do it. some of the guys shoot 6 days a week, and on very high birds.

 

the general concensus on the gun and the cartridge combo, #4s came out on top with 36g loads being the top load.

only one guy used 6s but that was with a 2" chambered gun.

 

whether the cartridge is fast or slow, itll get there and do the job !

[Hamster]

It seems to me that a high bird is one that can no longer be reliably and cleanly killed with 32g size 6 shot . It's true of course that this combo will kill some very tall birds that are in fact beyond the skill level of most people but some people seem to routinely use much bigger shot and more lead and extend this range. It's doubtful if there are that many shoots even capable of showing ultra high birds in the first place.

[pontbeck]

There are at least four in Northumberland showing birds well over 50 yds up. On one shoot they recommend 50 gram no 3`s for the extreme drives.

 

Bill

[CharlieT]

It seems to me that a high bird is one that can no longer be reliably and cleanly killed with 32g size 6 shot . It's true of course that this combo will kill some very tall birds that are in fact beyond the skill level of most people but some people seem to routinely use much bigger shot and more lead and extend this range. It's doubtful if there are that many shoots even capable of showing ultra high birds in the first place.

 

There are quite a few shoots in in this area alone, you would be suprised how many there are in the country as a whole.

[Hamster]

There are at least four in Northumberland showing birds well over 50 yds up. On one shoot they recommend 50 gram no 3`s for the extreme drives.

 

Bill

 

 

What guns do they recommend you fire them through? I have no doubt there are areas in the country where the topography allows the showing of very high birds but as a rule most shoots just don't have the conditions necessary for this.

 

Now let's turn the argument on it's head slightly. If there are so many people capable of folding pheasants at extreme range without wounding more than you would otherwise in normal circumstances, then where are they when there are tower shoots to be won chucking standard clays a mere 150 feet up?

[pontbeck]

What guns do they recommend you fire them through?

 

Shot guns 12 bore but I bet you really knew that didn`t you ?

 

The majority of those shooting game at those distances don`t shoot clays. The Duke of Northumberland and his brother Lord James are more than capable of folding them up and have plenty of opportunities to do so shooting several days a week from the 12th August.

I`m personally not in favour of shooting at such extreme hight as there are a great number of pricked birds from the less capable guns.

 

Bill

[CharlieT]

What guns do they recommend you fire them through? I have no doubt there are areas in the country where the topography allows the showing of very high birds but as a rule most shoots just don't have the conditions necessary for this.

 

Now let's turn the argument on it's head slightly. If there are so many people capable of folding pheasants at extreme range without wounding more than you would otherwise in normal circumstances, then where are they when there are tower shoots to be won chucking standard clays a mere 150 feet up?

 

 

There are very many fortunate people who are able to shoot 2, 3, 4+ days a week through the season, a significant number of which are truly accomplished shots who are more than capable of humanely killing quality high birds. Very few are clay shooters.

 

The old argument that large numbers of high birds get pricked is a bit of a red herring. I would suggest that wounding rates have little to do with actual measured distance and all to do with poor shooting or shooting at distances beyond their capabilities, be that 20 yds or 50 yds.

 

The gun does not have to pull the trigger, all it takes a little self restraint.

 

If you ever get the chance to watch a good team of guns addressing high birds, take it. You will be both amazed and fascinated.

[Hamster]

You never know, maybe one day I will get to watch extreme birds being folded by the gentry. Meanwhile all the experience I've ever had with shot guns and rifles is the longer the range, the more the chance of wounding, everything being equal. At the absolute least you have to accept that the striking energy of even size 4 shot is going to be a lot less at 80 yards compared to 45?

 

If you ever get the chance to fire at a pattern sheet from 80 yards using whatever choke, charge and size you like, take it, I think you'll be both amazed and fascinated.

 

What I really would pay to watch is a 12 gauge Purdey being used to fire 50 gram loads four or five days a week .

[Guest cookoff013]

You never know, maybe one day I will get to watch extreme birds being folded by the gentry. Meanwhile all the experience I've ever had with shot guns and rifles is the longer the range, the more the chance of wounding, everything being equal. At the absolute least you have to accept that the striking energy of even size 4 shot is going to be a lot less at 80 yards compared to 45?

 

If you ever get the chance to fire at a pattern sheet from 80 yards using whatever choke, charge and size you like, take it, I think you'll be both amazed and fascinated.

 

What I really would pay to watch is a 12 gauge Purdey being used to fire 50 gram loads four or five days a week .

 

ham old chap,

 

there is an amazing difference between the shotsizes, and shot speeds. did you know that a #4 shot at 1000fps still has more than double the energy of a #6 shot at 1400fps at 40 yards?

 

at 80 yards the #6 isnt even in the game anymore when it comes to the energy numbers. in reality terms and the limits to speed and payloads of normality 36g #2-#4 are about the most anyone would like to shoot at distance. either recoil or lack of shot after that.

Edited April 26, 2012 by cookoff013

[CharlieT]

You never know, maybe one day I will get to watch extreme birds being folded by the gentry. Meanwhile all the experience I've ever had with shot guns and rifles is the longer the range, the more the chance of wounding, everything being equal. At the absolute least you have to accept that the striking energy of even size 4 shot is going to be a lot less at 80 yards compared to 45?

 

If you ever get the chance to fire at a pattern sheet from 80 yards using whatever choke, charge and size you like, take it, I think you'll be both amazed and fascinated.

 

What I really would pay to watch is a 12 gauge Purdey being used to fire 50 gram loads four or five days a week .

 

Ah, but you would see that they are mostly using a longish barreled over and under with barrels regulated to give acceptable patterns at long range. Never seen a 50 gram cartridge, are such things made and used. Don't fall into the old cliche of taring all game shots as being gentry. One of the best I know is in the haulage business and another sells tractors. Practice and a little dash of talent is all that is required.

[Hamster]

I used the term gentry in jest seeing as if you can afford to shoot 5 days a week you might as well be. The length of barrel can do nothing for ballistics, nor can regulating them, the most they can throw is FULL. Beyond Full there is nothing, and that includes the so called Super Full. Talent or practice doesn't overcome ballistic deficiency or realities.

 

I am not saying you can't pull down some very high birds with 36 gram 4 or 5's, just saying that the shot that cleanly necks a pheasant at 80 yards high can just as easily wing (wound) the same bird. Also the shot that cleanly misses such a bird could just as easily have been a kill but for the odd wayward pellet. This is factual reality based on the distance V number of pellets.

 

The further away you shoot a clay or a living creature the sparser the pattern gets, sparser means more random chance of connecting. Practice or money is merely giving you the chance of increasing the odds of the random by sheer weight of shots fired. I have read reports of such high bird shoots in Sporting Gun before now and it was obvious from the tone of the writer that shot to kill ratio was not in the equation.

 

Still, each to their own.

[CharlieT]

I certainly do not wish to get in to an argument with you. You have obviously decided you don't approve of high birds, which is your choice although not mine.

 

However, just remember that there is more than enough striking energy in say a No 5 or 4 shot 36gram load to kill a pheasant at 60 yards. It is an accepted fact that it requires 3 pellets to kill, therefore the only other factor is pattern. Remember the old saying, pattern fails before energy but a heavily choked and well regulated barrel will, as a patten plate will have confirmed whilst regulating, deliver a pattern capable of killing a pheasant at 60 yds.

[swingit]

However, just remember that there is more than enough striking energy in say a No 5 or 4 shot 36gram load to kill a pheasant at 60 yards. It is an accepted fact that it requires 3 pellets to kill, therefore the only other factor is pattern. Remember the old saying, pattern fails before energy but a heavily choked and well regulated barrel will, as a patten plate will have confirmed whilst regulating, deliver a pattern capable of killing a pheasant at 60 yds.

 

There maybe enough energy to kill a pheasant with 3 pellet strikes at 60 + yards with a number 4 or 5 shot but,there is no getting away from the fact that your pattern is starting to fail miserably at such a range,even through a full choked gun.Even if 3 pellets did manage to find it's target,there is absolutely no guarantee at such ranges they will find a vital.

 

I'm not having a go,CharlieT,just being realistic.Like you,I shoot/have shot at some very tall birds,birds in the ranges we are talking about.Yes,I kill some outright but,being honest,I also get my share of pricked birds/runners and I don't think ( for the most part ) it's anything to do with my marksmanship ?,just that my pattern failed me at the extended range.

 

For the record.I have patterned my gun with many a shell and again,to be honest,I am not a 100% happy with any of them at 60 yards,the patterns are just to Inconsistent.I'm happy enough at 50 yards but,It was quite a eye opener how much it opened up over that 10 yards out to 60.So these days I tend to/try to stick at 50 yards and under.....Maybe I should give another choke a whirl and see how it fairs then.

 

Swingit.

[Hamster]

There maybe enough energy to kill a pheasant with 3 pellet strikes at 60 + yards with a number 4 or 5 shot but,there is no getting away from the fact that your pattern is starting to fail miserably at such a range,even through a full choked gun.Even if 3 pellets did manage to find it's target,there is absolutely no guarantee at such ranges they will find a vital.

 

I'm not having a go,CharlieT,just being realistic.Like you,I shoot/have shot at some very tall birds,birds in the ranges we are talking about.Yes,I kill some outright but,being honest,I also get my share of pricked birds/runners and I don't think ( for the most part ) it's anything to do with my marksmanship ?,just that my pattern failed me at the extended range.

For the record.I have patterned my gun with many a shell and again,to be honest,I am not a 100% happy with any of them at 60 yards,the patterns are just to Inconsistent.I'm happy enough at 50 yards but,It was quite a eye opener how much it opened up over that 10 yards out to 60.So these days I tend to/try to stick at 50 yards and under.....Maybe I should give another choke a whirl and see how it fairs then.

 

Swingit.

 

 

Warning - Warning - Warning

 

This post can be extremely harmful to your ego

 

I'm not having a go either, but when a post comes up which interests me then I try and contribute a different point of view (backed up by experience). This business of 3 pellets to ensure a kill is itself highly suspect and does not bear out in reality. I agree somebody tied a dead pheasant to a balloon about 60 years ago and shot at, then had it plucked and counted holes blah blah and drew some conclusions.............life is like that. In those days they simply did not have the sheer numbers of both clay and game / pigeon shooters whose actual experiences in the field do not support the 3 strike thing. I have often found runners with 5 or 6 pellets going strong, same as plucked birds with no visible injury including the head or neck.

 

The longer the range the more sparse the pattern, more sparse means more random chance of strike negating skill in other words. There is a good reason you can smoke clays at close to medium range but only get chips if you double the range. Rules of physics don't change for live game.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Hamster

[pontbeck]

I joined this thread as I pick up on a couple of these high bird shoots and wanted to let people know that there are a considerable number throughout the country.

However, my experience is unless the guns are of a high standard 90% plus of the birds picked are runners. I`ts all well and good presenting such birds but the average shot is not capable of hitting them.

 

Bill

[matone]

Warning - Warning - Warning

 

This post can be extremely harmful to your ego

 

I'm not having a go either, but when a post comes up which interests me then I try and contribute a different point of view (backed up by experience). This business of 3 pellets to ensure a kill is itself highly suspect and does not bear out in reality. I agree somebody tied a dead pheasant to a balloon about 60 years ago and shot at, then had it plucked and counted holes blah blah and drew some conclusions.............life is like that. In those days they simply did not have the sheer numbers of both clay and game / pigeon shooters whose actual experiences in the field do not support the 3 strike thing. I have often found runners with 5 or 6 pellets going strong, same as plucked birds with no visible injury including the head or neck.

 

The longer the range the more sparse the pattern, more sparse means more random chance of strike negating skill in other words. There is a good reason you can smoke clays at close to medium range but only get chips if you double the range. Rules of physics don't change for live game.

 

You`re correct on all points imho! I`ve been present on more `high bird` days than I

care to remember and my assesment is that anyone who is a reasonably good shot will

be `near` most birds.This translates to a lot of `touched` birds and in my experience

about 1 in 10 being killed properley!

It`s not about `sport`,it`s about making money from overblown egos sadly.

[gixer1]

There was a cracking photo on the cover of the shooting times of some lord or sir shooting past vertical and the bird dead in the air - that was a high bird! can't remember when it was but it was in the last few years.

 

Regards,

Gixer

[Teal]

I think a lot of the time a "high bird shoot" is in fact a "low gun shoot". I can't say that firing heavy cartridges at near vertical angles for most of the day would appeal to me , that said (and tin hat on) neither would game shooting 6 days a week for the whole season.

[Salop Matt]

Crickey i must be a big wimp because 28gram though a sxs is plenty for me and 30gram is as far as i would want to go !

To shoot 36 gram i would want a heaveyish OU for that. And pretty much rules out 20g users !

[Guest cookoff013]

I used the term gentry in jest seeing as if you can afford to shoot 5 days a week you might as well be. The length of barrel can do nothing for ballistics, nor can regulating them, the most they can throw is FULL. Beyond Full there is nothing, and that includes the so called Super Full. Talent or practice doesn't overcome ballistic deficiency or realities.

 

I am not saying you can't pull down some very high birds with 36 gram 4 or 5's, just saying that the shot that cleanly necks a pheasant at 80 yards high can just as easily wing (wound) the same bird. Also the shot that cleanly misses such a bird could just as easily have been a kill but for the odd wayward pellet. This is factual reality based on the distance V number of pellets.

 

The further away you shoot a clay or a living creature the sparser the pattern gets, sparser means more random chance of connecting. Practice or money is merely giving you the chance of increasing the odds of the random by sheer weight of shots fired. I have read reports of such high bird shoots in Sporting Gun before now and it was obvious from the tone of the writer that shot to kill ratio was not in the equation.

 

Still, each to their own.

 

 

very true, although someone tried to convince me that a 36" barreled .410 is "way" better than a 26" 12gauge.

beyond full is hot coring, hot coring is not actually a "pattern" but in all honesty its as useful as full.

 

if i had the chance to shoot high phesent, then i certainly would be entertaining some 36g /4/2 cartridges. but i dont think i`ll ever get thet chance.

[pontbeck]

I think a lot of the time a "high bird shoot" is in fact a "low gun shoot". I can't say that firing heavy cartridges at near vertical angles for most of the day would appeal to me , that said (and tin hat on) neither would game shooting 6 days a week for the whole season.

 

I agree, 6 or even 4 days a week makes it more like a job than a hobby. I like steak and chips but I wouldn`t want it every day for my dinner.

 

Bill