sterling Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I know since 1997 this is a raw subject in the UK but... Speaking to a gent earlier who has a pistol for humane despatch of deer got me thinking - I gather a deer rifle can be zero'd on a suitable range and used on targets to maintain proficiency. Could he ligitimately take his pistol to a range to do the same? I can imagine somebody target shooting with a sec.5 pistol drawing a bit of unwanted attention! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 IMHO No way. There is nothing to zero. You use a pistol to dispatch at pretty near point blank range. Beyond that a rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 The answer is yes. When I first had a FAC all I had listed were 2 single shot humane killers. They were conditioned for the obvious and I could use them to zero. First thing I did was put 10 rounds through it to get a 'feel'. No reason you couldn't do the same at a range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Provided his certificate says the pistol can be used for the humane dispatching of deer and for zeroing on ranges, or land, over which the the holder has lawful authority to shoot - or something to that effect - then the answer should be yes. I would guess that it would be worded like that as it would be for a rifle, but being a pistol it could be different. I wonder if many ranges would be able to allow it, I don't know if they could allow a S5 firearms to be used there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling Posted May 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Thanks for the info fellas! I know humane killers are to be used at close range but thinking about a situation where a wounded deer had fallen out of safe reach and it wasn't safe to discharge your stalking rifle, a well placed pistol shot might be required. I've owned pistols overseas and I know it takes practice to shoot tight groups beyond a few yards (for me anyway) Just wondered what the relevant conditions were on an FAC. I imagine it becomes even more of a gray area when Northern Ireland permits pistols and the rest of the UK doesn't - could someone from Britain compete with their humane despatch pistol over there? I might well be opening a can of worms here and I think I'd better stop thinking now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 The answer is yes. When I first had a FAC all I had listed were 2 single shot humane killers. They were conditioned for the obvious and I could use them to zero. First thing I did was put 10 rounds through it to get a 'feel'. No reason you couldn't do the same at a range. I know off hand 12 people whom have a pistol for HD includind vets/farmers and none of their fac's are conditioned for anything but HD. What is the wording for your HD pistol on your fac just out of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I know off hand 12 people whom have a pistol for HD includind vets/farmers and none of their fac's are conditioned for anything but HD. What is the wording for your HD pistol on your fac just out of interest. Thames Valley will NOT condition Humane dispatch pistols for any sort of Zeroing or target! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I know off hand 12 people whom have a pistol for HD includind vets/farmers and none of their fac's are conditioned for anything but HD. What is the wording for your HD pistol on your fac just out of interest. CBA to type it all out but "the .32 slaughter instrument shall be used only in connection with the humane killing of animals in the holders duties as a Veterinary Surgeon (then goes on to name the practice). The ammunition may also be used for the purposes of zeroing in connection with the above purpose." That is followed by the standard condition allowing me expanding ammunition. I have a lot more on there now (up to 3 sheets of paper for my FAC!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hmmm, interesting stuff! It serves to reinforce what most of us already knew; various police forces interpret and enforce the law differently. I was under the impression sec.5 and sec.7 pistols had to be secure couriered to and from approved ranges, so I suppose the hassle of zeroing or practicing with humane killers is avoided by most forces. Maybe we'll see a change in the law if our pistol squad do well at the olympics, but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hmmm, interesting stuff! It serves to reinforce what most of us already knew; various police forces interpret and enforce the law differently. I was under the impression sec.5 and sec.7 pistols had to be secure couriered to and from approved ranges, so I suppose the hassle of zeroing or practicing with humane killers is avoided by most forces. Maybe we'll see a change in the law if our pistol squad do well at the olympics, but I doubt it. If they do well there will be no incentive for the Government to change the law! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) If they do well there will be no incentive for the Government to change the law! If they don't do well, Gov could spin it such that pistol sport is deemed unworthy of repealing the ban for. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't! Edited May 8, 2012 by sterling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windknot Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 If you can't hit what you're aiming at it's not really HUMANE dispatch, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I was under the impression sec.5 and sec.7 pistols had to be secure couriered to and from approved ranges, It would be a lot of hassle every time I wanted to shoot something........ I do have a little safe in my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 It would be a lot of hassle every time I wanted to shoot something........ I do have a little safe in my car. Sorry I was a bit unclear; I mean couriered to target shoot, not to despatch. I had heard something about sec.7 used for target shooting/research which had to be securely couriered. A lot of my "research" is actually hearsay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) CBA to type it all out but "the .32 slaughter instrument shall be used only in connection with the humane killing of animals in the holders duties as a Veterinary Surgeon (then goes on to name the practice). The ammunition may also be used for the purposes of zeroing in connection with the above purpose." That is followed by the standard condition allowing me expanding ammunition. I have a lot more on there now (up to 3 sheets of paper for my FAC!) So legally you cannot use this firearm for zeroing or anything else apart from HD. Edited May 8, 2012 by Luckyshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I know off hand 12 people whom have a pistol for HD includind vets/farmers and none of their fac's are conditioned for anything but HD. What is the wording for your HD pistol on your fac just out of interest. I also have yet to see a fac pistol conditioned for anything other than HD. Mine, when I had it, certainly did not. So legally you cannot use this firearm for zeroing or anything else apart from HD. I agree, thats how I read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 So legally you cannot use this firearm for zeroing or anything else apart from HD. I'm not especially bothered since it's not an item that requires zeroing! I specifically asked the FEO if I can take a few shots at a straw bale to get the feel of the gun and was told the zeroing bit I quoted allowed me to do so. The humane dispatch condition now has my .308 listed next to it. Says that I can ONLY use the humane killers, dart guns and .308 for humane dispatch. Then goes on to authorise the .308 for deer stalking and foxes. Technically if I use my dart gun on an animal and it lives I am contravening a FAC condition. I'm not worried. I will continue as I have been doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thanks for the replies - it seems the general consensus is that in most cases zeroing/target shooting with a humane killer is not legal but apache's experience has been otherwise. One of these days I might understand our firearms laws... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 So the police are saying here is a firearm, please dont shoot it until you are in an emergency situation that will put other pressures on the situation and we expect you not to **** it up despite the fact that you have not shot the gun in a practice environment...... Hmmm....sounds daft to me! "in connection with" is so ambiguous I would happily argue that it covered getting to know your firearm and practising! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 So the police are saying here is a firearm, please dont shoot it until you are in an emergency situation that will put other pressures on the situation and we expect you not to **** it up despite the fact that you have not shot the gun in a practice environment...... Hmmm....sounds daft to me! "in connection with" is so ambiguous I would happily argue that it covered getting to know your firearm and practising! Considering the hoops one has to go through to get one in the first place you'd have to be nuts to start that sort of argument. Probably the cause of why the police make it so restrictive to stop the boy's toy's brigade from having one to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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