casts_by_fly Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 it is tough to tell what is hill and what is flat, but to be honest, I can see where the FLO is coming from. For the chunk on the right, there aren't many places you can shoot from and to that aren't pointing in the direction of either houses or warehouses (industrial?). Basically you can sit on the bottom third and shoot towards the top right of the patch. If the treeline crossing the bottom third is the footpath or public road (or somewhere a person could reasonably be found) then that would take out even more of it. Of course if there are hills then that improves things for you, but only slightly and depends on where they are. Looking at it from his perspective, you've got a new shooter who's never had an FAC before with questionable land that certainly can't be approved fully. There is a lot of opportunity for error there and he's not going to put his butt on the line for it. Also considering how many houses are nearby, I'm guessing that not far out of the screenshot there are even more that a bad judgement could put in danger. I'm not saying the land can't be shot safely (obviously it can since people have) just that a FLO is going to be reluctant to let a new FAC holder do it. All that said, it looks like there may be some sizable trees around the edges. Maybe asking for high seat restricted shooting (and swap the 243 for a hornet, or leave 243 off the land) might get you what you need. Thanks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 to be honest I will not bother with the land at home till I get open as suggested earlier. If I can get sorted with the other land I have in mind then I can start from there, guess I need to get some squeaking practise in to get foxes close enough for shottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 My main advice is join a shooting organisation BEFORE you apply for a certificate then they can advise or represent you, joining after youve been knocked back is like trying to insure your car after you pranged it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 My main advice is join a shooting organisation BEFORE you apply for a certificate then they can advise or represent you, joining after youve been knocked back is like trying to insure your car after you pranged it. I had every intention of joining Basc, used to be an air rifle member. I have decided to get my other permissions further from home to sign up to fac rather than hunting with ferrets, air rifle and birds of prey that I have with them at the moment. Its a pity my farm wasn't passed as I live on it and I have foxs going after my chickens and turkeys but unless I can get in shotgun range, which I doubt, then I'll have to get someone one in with an open ticket or get rid of them all as I can't let anything out as they are taken during the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I have had a larger piece of land knocked back due to poor backstops. at the end of e day it's the force armorers decision and that is that. the advice given earlier is correct, find more land that is cleared then apply for an open ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Its a pity my farm wasn't passed as I live on it and I have foxs going after my chickens and turkeys but unless I can get in shotgun range, which I doubt, then I'll have to get someone one in with an open ticket or get rid of them all as I can't let anything out as they are taken during the day. That may be a whole different kettle of fish then. Go back to them and argue that by refusing your request they are endangering your livelihood. Join a shooting organisation asap, my preference would be SACS rather than BASC as Ian Clark is extremely proactive and has been a massive thorn in the West Yorkshire Police side. But there's a lot of choice out there, some better and cheaper than others and some more appropriate for individual help rather than for the general shooting community. I'm no expert but it seems you may have a valid argument for having it rechecked but don't go it alone, get some effective backup from a shooting organisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Sorry the chickens are not livelihood, just a few turkeys for Christmas and eggs I sell at work. I work in forensics so knew I wouldn't have any problems with background checks as I have to be squeaky clean so I stupidly thought it would be a doddle and Id join basc or someone before my cert arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Still might apply though. You have poultry that is being endangered and you are being denied an effective method of protecting them. Worth asking a few questions at least. Depending on the FEO that inspected the land, he/she might have no shooting knowledge and be working off a checklist or worse still acting under direct instruction from his boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 By all means give our firearms team a call to see if there is anything that can be done, and if so they will certainly give you some guidance and further help. Just checking, but has the land been passed before for any calibre? Did he FEO give any details of why its unsafe? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 By all means give our firearms team a call to see if there is anything that can be done, and if so they will certainly give you some guidance and further help. Just checking, but has the land been passed before for any calibre? Did he FEO give any details of why its unsafe? David The land has never been passed for anything, I didn't speak to the person who did the check as the firearms dept don't have a number for him apprently. I was just told all land unsuitable for anything other than shotgun or airgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Just been to one of the neighbours farms, turns out they or tgeir neighbour spoke to feo and said the footpath was really busy and they didn't think it was safe to shoot ! The reason; they didn't know me and they didn't want any deer shot as they feed them ! He then says I'm doing a great job shooting foxes as hes noticed less chickens going and that if I get a cert I can shoot on his land *** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 The land has never been passed for anything, I didn't speak to the person who did the check as the firearms dept don't have a number for him apprently. I was just told all land unsuitable for anything other than shotgun or airgun. apply for a large cal fac air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy198712 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 thats what i was thinking, FAC air, get your fac and work on the extra slots.... extra permissions would be cheaper though i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I have 150-200 acres of land and the police have said none of it is suitable for anything other than a shotgun or air rifle !! Russ91 has shot my land quite a few times and there are backstops. The only reason I have is that there is 1 footpath and all the land is totally unsuitable I applied for 22lr, 17hmr and .243 They have said there is no appeal and thats it basically. There is an appeal - Section.44 of the Firearms Act. J. Apparently they won't be coming back, and my application is now cancelled pending further land Have they actually oficially refused you in writing? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jackson Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I think it's difficult to make a full judgement from this point of view. But by just looking at your photo, I can see why they initially say no. Just looking at the land on the right. To the north and north west it looks like house, so no safe back stop there. It looks like an industrial estate to the south and south east. With a footpath through the middle then you've got a road to the east. Not much in back stops in my opinion. There is an appeal - Section.44 of the Firearms Act. J. Have they actually oficially refused you in writing? J. Isn't that a trip to crown court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Isn't that a trip to crown court? It certainly is but it makes the point that if the chap has been told that there is no appeal he has been told wrongly. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jackson Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 It certainly is but it makes the point that if the chap has been told that there is no appeal he has been told wrongly. J. I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I am in constant touch with Ian Clark if you want phone him on 01698 885206 and tell him Tam told you to Phone If you have been refused you only have 21 days to appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linny Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I am in constant touch with Ian Clark if you want phone him on and tell him Tam told you to Phone If you have been refused you only have 21 days to appeal HE MIGHT NOT LIKE THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE PUT HIS NUMBER ON A PUBLIC FORUM YOU SHOULD HAVE SENT HIM A PM I HAVE DELETED THE NUMBER FROM THIS POST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 HE MIGHT NOT LIKE THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE PUT HIS NUMBER ON A PUBLIC FORUM YOU SHOULD HAVE SENT HIM A PM I HAVE DELETED THE NUMBER FROM THIS POST He probably won't mind actually, after all this is the SACS office number that is plastered all over their website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 He probably won't mind actually, after all this is the SACS office number that is plastered all over their website :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED BEARD Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) this might sound a bit daft,but if your fouls are all in one place you could build a high chair (2 wag poles) in the right place,that way you will always have a perfect back stop.i know of a bloke in dorset that got a small bit of land passed that way for centre fire. Edited May 9, 2012 by RED BEARD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Well after a short road trip I now have about 300 acres over 2 farms in North Yorkshire with limestones hills all over. Permission for rabbit & fox however this still doesn't help at home but it's a start. Thanks for all the advice, I think I'll get some current FAC holder sto have a wander and see if the feo is right about the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter.123 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 What? Iv got land with footpaths and houses cleared for 22lr no problem and even my centerfire land has go footpaths and it's cleared upto .308 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Another quick question, when you apply for Fac you fill in the details of the land where you will shoot and contact details, as mine was rejected they said call back with details of other land. I have done this but now they say I have to send permission letters into the firearms dept and my application won't go any further till I do this ... am I being mucked about or did they get it wrong yesterday ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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