New BASC Chairman elected

[gunsmoke]

I would be surprised if there has been any wrong doing in the election of the Chair.

But along with many other things that are coming out of Faulty Towers, ooops I meant Marford Mill it would not surprise me.

If his election was not carried out correctly then he should step down. I know that there will be supporters saying that he can give us insight. But it is a bit like Thor Hammer manufacturing company electing Peter Sutcliffe to the Board.

 

A story of shooting folk from MILLORD FARM. LOL

[Kes]

Is there any more news on this?

Any formal press releases or confirmation - It seems to have gone deathly quiet.

Rumours of petitions to remove the new Chairman have not materialised, so was this a storm in a tea cup.

 

I will be rethinking my membership when it falls due, this apparent mess is not confidence boosting.

[stalker2]

Is there any more news on this?

Any formal press releases or confirmation - It seems to have gone deathly quiet.

Rumours of petitions to remove the new Chairman have not materialised, so was this a storm in a tea cup.

 

I will be rethinking my membership when it falls due, this apparent mess is not confidence boosting.

 

 

and so will i mate ,i am sick of paying money and told about "murkey politics" from an organisation i subscribe to

if this is true then i am definately out

 

PS i suppose david from BASC will critisise all who dare moan

Edited June 25, 2012 by stalker2

[Mungler]

I think it is well funny. Any "new appointment at BASC thread" gets the same treatment

 

I do sympathise with anyone actually in BASC who did vote and who didn't get the man they wanted, but that's how it works.

 

Anyone else, well you are either in BASC and didn't vote or you're not in BASC and so weren't entitled to vote - you see what I'm getting at.

 

All the bitchy ex-BASC lot on here having a supreme moan up, well funny - moaning about an organisation you aren't and will never be part of, and probably an organisation you spent your whole time moaning about when you were in it.

 

Me, I'm going to find a forum to moan about the formation of the Muslim Brotherhood as the ruling party in Egypt - I'm not muslim and I'm not Egyptian mind you, but I did go on holiday there 10 years ago and hated it.

[mudpatten]

I don`t work for BASC and am no more than a concerned member.

 

Each to his own, although I`ve always made a point of finding out for myself what the truth of the latest "rumour" actually is.

 

I also try to figure out what the angle is of the person who is giving me the detail of the "murky politics".

 

It would seem though that you are about to leave BASC because they certainly have imposed an apparently unsuitable chairman who has no democratic mandate.

 

Lots is happening behind the scenes. BASC is an organisation run by human beings who, like all of us, occasionally get things wrong and make decisions which,with hindsight, might have been made differently.

 

Out of interest, did you vote for the new chairman when he was originally elected to Council. or did you vote for someone else? Or did you not vote at all?

 

Whichever of those, when you leave you won`t be in a position to affect any of it`s democratic processes. A real pity since you obviously care about the politics involved but will no longer be in a position to help elect Council members who will do the things you want.

 

I think your mind has already been turned against BASC, other contributors on this forum will be rubbing their hands in glee that their long term objectives, not of improving BASC, but of destroying it, has found another convert.

 

I`ve read all of David BASC`s posts since he first came on here and I`ve never, ever seen him criticise "all who moan". What he does do is to politely but firmly point out an alternative viewpoint, and he does that stoically in the face of some lunatic and unfounded criticism.

 

I wish you well in the new shooting organisation of your choice.Whichever one you select you`ll find that their internal politics are just as "murky" as you believe those of BASC to be.

 

These are merely my views. I`m not looking for an argument.

[David BASC]

The press release about the new Chairman came out last week, as I have said many times before the best place to see what’s going on at BASC, what projects we are working on, and what the latest news is, will be the BASC web site.

 

Here is the link to the press release for you, its still on the home page by the way: http://www.basc.org.uk/en/media/pressreleases.cfm/prid/F6094521-98B9-416C-AED5D215DD64C640

 

David

[Kes]

I am one member of BASC (have been for years and did not vote for this Chairman, ever) and have also read David Basc's posts. David appears to be untypical of an organisation which seems determined to destroy itself with internal politics. It simply seems to me that this Chairman will not drive forward the kind of BASC I would like to see. Some of his actions are confusing to say the least. How does this play with replacing the Chief Executive, what role will the Chairman have ?

It just doesnt seem worth the effort, when there are other organisations who could take up the place BASC is in danger of leaving. It doesnt take a great deal to make such an organisation weak, I agree, but how many mistakes before members become justifiably concerned?

How much of our subscriptions are being used on this ? How long before we know whats happening - is the new Chairman there for the full term?

David Basc wont be commenting, as he will be constrained by the internal politics - if he published an opinion he would probably face disciplinary action he will remain 'in purdah' and as the one person in BASC obviously working for me, I wouldnt want that.

Will anyone own up to voting for this man?

Edited June 26, 2012 by Kes

[David BASC]

I cant for the life of me understand why someone who has not even had the courtesy to pick up the telephone or e-mail me states that I cant / wont answer these questions.

 

The rules and constitution of BASC clearly state the role that Council has in terms of appointing the Chief executive.

 

The published and audited accounts showed that the cost of running Council and the auditors (for elections etc) was just over £148,000 in 2011

 

The BASC rules are also clear on how long a member of Council stays on Council for and how long a Chairman remains in post.

 

I cannot be disciplined for stating what it says in the rules and constitution of BASC or repeating a line from the published accounts!

 

David

[mudpatten]

Again as a personal observation.

 

I suppose we all look at things differently. I tend to use hard logic. BASC is a democratic organisation. As such,internal politics is at the very core of what it does. If it was`nt, it would be a dictatorship. Look very carefully at the way in which some other organisations are run before slagging BASC too strongly.

 

There are bound to be situations like the current chairmanship one occurring regularly. It is the sign that BASC is alive and dynamic. It might not always be peaceful but it certainly ain`t moribund!

 

You say "David is untypical of an organisation determined to destroy itself with internal politics." Actually, and in my opinion,David is absolutely typical of all BASC staff. He is intelligent, articulate, dedicated and extremely knowledgeable.

 

Whatever plays out at boardroom level has no effect whatsoever on the efficient way in which BASC carries out its day to day duties.I work for a local council where there are frequent knife fights between elected politicians and staff. They have no effect whatsoever on me emptying your dustbins.

 

Most of your other concerns will be answered with the passage of time although it is true to say that no extra part of your subscriptions are being used to finance any of this.

 

If, God forbid, there was another serious gun incident in the next few days, the BASC PR machine will slip smoothly into gear and deliver the kind of spectacularly solid service that it did for the entire shooting community the last time something like that happened, totally eclipsing the efforts of all the other organisations. At that time we all could not congratulate BASC enough for its organisation and forward planning. None of that infrastructure has changed.BASC is still working hard, every day, to defend shooting and its core functions are completely unaffected by boardroom squabbles.

 

I do have a wider view about the current chaimanship issue and it is not very complimentary. However, I strive to look at it within the context of a living and evolving democracy which is often turbulent and troublesome. With respect, if you see that as somehow detrimental to the service BASC provides I`m not sure what to say to help you sleep at night.

 

It always amuses me that some detractors of BASC accuse it of being run by staid,stuffy, tweed clad upper class twits and yet when it clearly demonstrates that it is still vibrant and that people still believe in it passionately after more than a hundred years, then that`s wrong as well!

Edited June 26, 2012 by mudpatten

[Kes]

Ok I have heard David's and your comments and I think I need to clarify something.

First, there were a few people on here (and elsewhere) who could not understand how the present Chairman became the present Chairman, given his past record.

Second, as you say, in all democratic organisations there is politics, no problem with that as a statement of the obvious but, having also worked with Council's occasionally, There is Politics and then there is politics. The significance being one is very visible and supposedly representative of the electors and the other, with the small P is only known and understood by those who are 'involved'. The latter, small p politics, is usually very important and often underlies the big P stuff to the point where Politics is a veil.

David, I said what I said because you no doubt cannot comment on why the Chirman was elected, except to say he was supported by a majority, my questions relate to why he was supported as someone who appears to have limited support in the 'Real' world of shooting. As for picking up the phone, you have given me the big P, all I know you could give - I am interested in the small p as this is the stuff which will affect my membership.

I can read rules (surprisingly) but I cannot see into the unusual world of BASC politics; but that has, and will, have a profound effect upon whether I wish to be represented by a group (who can apparently expose itself in public and to a hostile anti shooting lobby) to appear to be in abject turmoil.

Public image is all, is it not ? Havent we developed a media centre to ensure the correct image is consistently before a sceptical public?

Yes the process rely's on who casts votes for whom and the Council elects a Chairman - there are no rules which explain how the present situation has been arrived at other than these ?

I have been a supporter of yours David - read the post again.

I have no doubt that many who wish to comment also dont wish to be railed at - unusual for you.

Because I have concerns shared with others doesnt mean I need to be criticised for seeking to avoid asking you about the politics of this - if you finally get the point.

Mudpatten, thank you for your comments, generally fair and reasonable - if looking a little down your nose.

 

I confirm I do not think this mess serves BASC's image well and for me, at least, I am left wondering at how such a situation could have arisen in a democratic system.

Yes, I know Votes etc., but thats not the point - is it !

[al4x]

The only thing I can think Kes is the chairman has a slightly checkered previous employment history from some perspectives but the people that know him aren't holding it against him. So perhaps know him well enough to think he is the best man for the job. Though the history isn't great with some in the wildfowling fraternity he may know "the enemy" better than most

[David BASC]

I can comment on how the Chairman was elected, as its covered in the rules of the Association.

 

I certainly cannot lobby for candidates of course, nor would I pass personal comments on my views of any elected member for that that matter.

 

BASC members get a free vote on candidates who are proposed and seconded to run for Council.

Once a person is elected to Council they are by default eligible to stand for Chairman when the election for Chair and vice Chair takes place in the first Council meeting after the annual general meeting.

 

Again they need proposers etc and they are then voted into that position by the other members of the elected Council. The Council members then hear representations from all who which to run for Chair / Vice Chair and make a vote. A simple majority wins.

 

I have no issue with people asking questions, and thank you for clarifying some of these points, apologies if I mis-understood.

 

David

Edited June 26, 2012 by David BASC

[mudpatten]

My apologies if I gave the impression of talking down my nose at you,I`ve been cursed with the gift of plain speaking and I can`t help but say it how I see it.

 

What it would seem to boil down to is that what you see represents abject turmoil whilst what I see is the democratic process at work in all it`s blood and guts brutality.

 

BASC will emerge from the blood letting stronger than it went in.

 

Step back for a moment and ask yourself if you truly believe that BASC`s core functions, and ability to perform them, have in any way been compromised.

 

I for one do not believe they have. Do you naievely, no offence intended,imagine that this is the first time there has been such a spat within BASC? Like any large corporation, it happens occasionally, and for the very best of reasons.

 

All the major shooting organisations,other Members Associations such as the RSPB,LACS and all the political parties regularly hack at each other for one reason or another, the Tories are doing it as we speak over education. I must say again that this is how real world politics work.

 

There is a large sign outside my local church. It reads "God promises you a safe landing, not a pleasant journey."

 

So it is with "The voice of shooting", sometimes that voice gets a bit raucous and some times they shout at each other.Just like any family they have disagreements, but it will all work out right in the end.

 

You might want to see how the thing unfolds and not resign just yet.

[Kes]

Thank you both for a considerate response and to al4x for another and simpler perspective.

I just cant see how someone who apparently extends a 'no shooting' zone and who has strong views (but no evidence)on illegal killing of raptors can change his philosophy with his organisation.

Perhaps though 'to thine own self be true' does not apply when one is looking for a job with influence.

I hope al4x is correct and that others saw him as the best candidate for the job and the 'small p' horse trading wasn't the determining factor.

I tend to be a simple chap, changing coats if the weather demands it but also having spent long enough researching and soul searching not to change my core beliefs in a similar way.

I find it hard to get on with people who are one thing for one group and another for another - duplicity, I believe it to be; it may be the preserve of politicians, even essential for their 'trade', but its not jonnock (apologies to our scots buddies) - its not straight and true.

[mudpatten]

Kes, Just a thought, as a BASC member it used to be possible for one to email Council members direct.

 

If you don`t have time to find out whether that facility still exists, please let me know and I`ll find out on your behalf.

 

You can then ask him directly to deal with some of your concerns.

 

It will be really interesting to see how he answers. After all, he is now the chairman of a 130,000 strong association and as such, is pretty much morally obligated to answer your questions.

 

One of BASC`s greatest strengths has always been the accessibility of its staff and elected members.I`m sure he will be anxious to continue that tradition.

[Mungler]

The only thing I can think Kes is the chairman has a slightly checkered previous employment history from some perspectives but the people that know him aren't holding it against him. So perhaps know him well enough to think he is the best man for the job. Though the history isn't great with some in the wildfowling fraternity he may know "the enemy" better than most

 

Indeed, and in the week Her Maj is going to shake hands with 'that chap' from Ireland.

 

As has been stated above, all the BASC people I have dealt with have been top drawer and I still think David needs some sort of award for keeping his cool on here despite all manner of unreasonableness and unpleasantness.

 

I often eat dog poo sarnies at work to keep clients happy and who am I to say if they are being reasonable or unreasonable, they are my clients. However, who of you would take a load of poop off someone who was not your customer, was never going to be your customer and clearly were intent on doing everything in their power to run your business down at every opportunity and forever and regardless. It's a sobering thought on how any of us would individually handle that dialogue.

 

Every time I read the same old anti BASC stuff from the same old anti BASC people I just hear old rusty axes being sharpened in the background.

[Kes]

Sorry Mungler it may be clear to you but it needs decoding a bit for oinks like me. Perhaps you should also advise your clients they expect too much of you ?

[mudpatten]

Kes,

 

Do you wish me to try to put you directly in touch with the new chairman as per my previous post?

[David BASC]

Anyone can contact the Chairman, most prefer to write, marking the envelope Private and Confidential

 

David

[mudpatten]

Thank you for that David.

 

Kes,It would seem that there IS a straightforward way that you can allay some of your concerns.

 

Perhaps, rather than speculate on this forum, any of us who have concerns about the new chairman could contact him direct and get a definitive answer from the horses mouth.

 

A quick letter will reveal the answers to some of the questions currently being asked and will remove all doubt about the chairmans appropriateness for the job in hand. Kes, perhaps you could let us all know how you get on.

[mudpatten]

Since writing that a few miniutesw ago I`ve just had a look at the BASC website.

 

If you go to "contact us" and use the drop down menu it is evidently possible to email council members.

 

What could be easier? And furthermore, they undertake to try to reply within three working days.

Edited June 27, 2012 by mudpatten

[Salopian]

I think where we are all getting a little hot under the collar about this is with the new Chair being perceived to be anti -shooting.

But it is frankly very clear, he wants to be on BASC Council so he put himself up for election, due to his contacts he was elected fairly. He then wanted to be Chair so he put himself up for election and received enough votes to be elected.

Now we have to see how he performs. If we don't like it we can write and complain and if we get enough support we can make change, if we don't get enough support we will then have to accept the majority decision.

It is the same with the Lead shot debate, I, we, some of us, believe that BASC is not working hard enough on our behalf.

What is apparent is that John Harradine is very supportive of steel shot as a viable alternative in some circumstances, but in my opinion BASC has not robustly defended Lead against the various agencies that oppose the use of Lead shot, and to have actually co-operated with WWT in the production of their report does appear to be very misguided.

The fact of the matter is, we will have to accept that Lead shot will be phased out because we have not defended our corner vigorously enough.

Not one of the organisations have done a jot, in fact they have all left it to BASC.

I wrote to the CEO of the CPSA last week expressing my concerns and he replied that he was happy to await the findings of the LAG report. NGO can't be bothered, and the CA as always are just mischievous.

Really it's a bit like industry, the Boss comes up and says " We've got a problem. Let me know when You've sorted it."

[al4x]

realistically he told a load of gamekeepers not to keep being naughty in one instance, there is little doubt they were, and had a bit of a problem with some wildfowlers in an area, Other than that seems he is a lifelong shooter who still does it so really its hard to say he is in any way an anti. The stalking directory had a thread that looked like it was getting educational about what he actually was supposed to have done but got wrecked by an idiot, who sadly seems to still be a BASC trade member having stitched up people left right and center. Thats far more scandalous in my opinion.

[Kes]

Since writing that a few miniutesw ago I`ve just had a look at the BASC website.

 

If you go to "contact us" and use the drop down menu it is evidently possible to email council members.

 

What could be easier? And furthermore, they undertake to try to reply within three working days.

 

Mud and David - Thanks both, I will do some research and e-mail the Chairman directly.

If the response is satisfactory - that's good enough.

If its a little doubtful I will report back for interests sake - that way 'no news' can be assumed to be good news and I wont be perceived to be lobbying for a point of view that, from the posts on this thread, is not shared by many.

Thanks all, much appreciated.

Kes

[Scully]

NGO can't be bothered, and the CA as always are just mischievous.

 

Not sure if that's strictly correct about the NGO;as far as I'm aware they weren't invited to sit on the LAG,but I may be wrong.

Things could be getting interesting regarding the CA's input;I hear their new boss isn't a happy chappy and has requested a 'meet'! :look:

Edited June 27, 2012 by Scully