Another nail in the coffin for airguns

[VikingRebel]

Good lord, some people are so quick to throw away their freedom, is it any wonder that shooting and gun ownership has been so decimated in this country? The last thing we need in this country is more knee-jerk anti-gun laws. Airgun crime is not even a significant problem, infact more people are shot by handguns than airguns each year. In all honesty if airguns go on FAC (i could just about tollerate a system similar to shotgun certificates), i think it will be the last straw for me with this country. I will not continue to live in an increasingly urban-centric, nanny state, inhabited by apathetic sheeple who throw away their rights at the drop of a hat, and i dont want my grandchildren to live in one either.

 

Im sorry about what happened to the poor kid, but if it wasnt an airgun, it would have been a slingshot or even just a rock (the latter two would probably have done far more harm than an airgun). Stop blaming the weapon and start blaming the thug who thinks its acceptable to go around attacking 4 year old children for no reason. There are already laws in place to prevent and punish such behavoir, so use them to their full force. Dont bring in new laws that will only penalise the activities of millions of good, law abiding people.

 

Im not sorry for the rant

[fo5ter]

Agree with most of that. A lot of people on here grew up with parents or friends who shot. They forget that if you don't have that (and an awful lot of people don't), shooting can seem an impenetrable closed shop which is impossible to break into. Air guns can give you that start on the first rung of the ladder. None of my family were into shooting, so I got into it through air guns - as did most of our mates. Gats and similar and later springer rifles (PCPs weren't invented!) We all messed around with them, nothing outrageous but stuff that does make my toes curl a little now when I think back to it Later I joined cadets and started competitive shooting where I got properly mentored in safety.

 

The thing is, airguns sparked a life long love of shooting for me and my mates. If we'd had to get a licence and all the cost and hassle that goes with it, we probably wouldn't have bothered. The less people who shoot, the less voice we have, the easier it is for us to be marginalised and legislated out of existence as an irrelevant minority that won't be missed. Airguns are the life blood that feed the roots of all branches of the shooting sports, without LOTS of youngsters getting an early taste of shooting through the only accessible type of shooting for most people, shooting will wither and die within a generation or so :(

 

Expertly said

[dougall]

Whether or not this twit shot the child in the face on purpose he deserves all he gets.The gun should be confiscated/destroyed.The Laws are many and plenty sufficient to deal with this situation we do not need any new ones. But holy fly folks imagine if that was your 4 year old son/grandson? I would want to ram it where the sun does'nt shine and I have NIL sympathy with what was at best a reckless ill thought out plink,At worst attempted murder.

All the best to the little chap.

[storme37]

if sub 12 ft lb air rifles were licenced then its a major disaster for the future of shooting in the UK. The answer is education and correct enforcement of the rules already in existance THIS INCLUDES SENTENCING not letting 95% + off with a minor wrist slap.

 

here here

[pegasus bridge]

Good lord, some people are so quick to throw away their freedom, is it any wonder that shooting and gun ownership has been so decimated in this country? The last thing we need in this country is more knee-jerk anti-gun laws. Airgun crime is not even a significant problem, infact more people are shot by handguns than airguns each year. In all honesty if airguns go on FAC (i could just about tollerate a system similar to shotgun certificates), i think it will be the last straw for me with this country. I will not continue to live in an increasingly urban-centric, nanny state, inhabited by apathetic sheeple who throw away their rights at the drop of a hat, and i dont want my grandchildren to live in one either.

 

Im sorry about what happened to the poor kid, but if it wasnt an airgun, it would have been a slingshot or even just a rock (the latter two would probably have done far more harm than an airgun). Stop blaming the weapon and start blaming the thug who thinks its acceptable to go around attacking 4 year old children for no reason. There are already laws in place to prevent and punish such behavoir, so use them to their full force. Dont bring in new laws that will only penalise the activities of millions of good, law abiding people.

 

Im not sorry for the rant

 

 

its not a matter of people throwing freedoms away; far from it - but one thing i am sure of, is eventually the regular misuse of air rifles by morons will end up costing us all.

 

it would be better for those with legitimate shooting interests to have a hand in control, rather than take a head-in-sand approach on the basis that doing anything else would be like 'throwing away freedoms'.

 

 

not a week passes by when i dont read stories in the press about air rifles being mis-used.

 

my idea ;

those already with a fac/sgc - automatically get the right to buy/use (on an 'open' basis) higher powered air rifle (say 30ft lb limit.

 

those without - cab get sub 12ft lb with a basic 'licence' of some descrption. (no land requirement)

Edited June 22, 2012 by pegasus bridge

[guest1957]

I dispair when shooters ask for furtther restrictions on air rifle ownership in this country

[fenboy]

I dispair when shooters ask for furtther restrictions on air rifle ownership in this country

 

 

Yes and no doubt you would despair even more if it was your child that took the pellet to the face , I am afraid its got to the stage where something needs to be done because it does not look like those that commit these crimes are ever going to be punished enough by the courts.

At the end of the day it looks like the law is going to go through in scotland and I guess that means it is only a matter of time before we follow suit IMO , do i want it no, do we need it ,I would say yes.

[JonathanL]

get them on ticket.

 

Total waste of time. I truly hope you don't get what you wish for because, given the numbers of them, licensing departemnts - which are already painfully slow - will simply grind to a halt. Also, I presume that you will strongly support every single prosecution that results from some poor innocent person not realising that they need to licence dads old airgun.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

yes but if you can't buy ammo or parts or fill a pcp then it will stop some.

 

 

 

 

Only the law abiding. Criminals can't buy 9mm ammo but we still see machineguns being used in crime. As I said, won't work. Just enforce the law as it already stands - lock up people who carry out violent crime for a long time.

 

J.

 

I doubt pellets will be in short supply as it seems there is no problem getting hold of 9mm bullets etc and pellets come in tins of 500 !.

At the end of the day they do need to go on ticket , and I also think you should need good reason to own , club shooting , pest control permissions etc.

I cant see why wanting to put a hole in a bean tin on the balcony of your inner city flat would be good reason

Its a sad state of affairs as no doubt many shooters have entered shooting by having a airgun brought them.

 

You have just contradicted your own argument though. If it isn't going to do any good then why do it in the first place?

 

J.

[Scully]

Total waste of time. I truly hope you don't get what you wish for because, given the numbers of them, licensing departemnts - which are already painfully slow - will simply grind to a halt. Also, I presume that you will strongly support every single prosecution that results from some poor innocent person not realising that they need to licence dads old airgun.

 

J.

Totally agree.An absolute waste of time and money.

It is already illegal to shoot someone with an air-rifle,and given that there are already 100's of thousands of these things in circulation,I fail to see how retrospective licensing will prevent this happening again.Politicians know this,but it does them no harm in duping the parents and relatives of victims into believing that 'something' has been done,and that our streets are now a safer place.They haven't got the will to tackle the real culprits so they take the easy option,and introduce legislation which only affects the law-abiding,but has no affect whatsoever on the criminal element.But in the eyes of the public...'something has been done'.

[JonathanL]

The problem is that the general public are not shooters and when they see something like this all they can see is a gun that has shot somebody. If I did not shoot I would probably think that guns should be banned if I had seen the article.

 

The answer is effective punishment using law we already have which should include some serious time at HMP. But seeing as Westminster has an agenda to de-arm all citizens then I think that licence free airgun shooting is recieving it's final meal on death row.

 

God i'm lucky I was a child 20 odd years ago.

 

I genuinely don't belive that the general public actually care. No election is ever going to be won or lost on what stance the candidates take on gun ownership. If some politican convinces people that income tax or the price of petrol will come down by licensing airguns then people will take notice but otherwise it's a non-issue to them. The only people who care are those who will be directly affected by it no one else will base their vote on it.

 

By and large, the non-shooting public don't have a clue what the gun laws are to begin with; I'm involved with two clubs and we get prospective new members contacting us all the time who haven't the vaguest clue what is legal and what isn't - every single week we get people ringing up wanting to shoot pistols and can't quite belive it when you tell them they can't.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

I'd love to see a dedicated airgun ticket introduced with SGC-esq conditions, but as soon as such plans are anounced, thousands of air guns will be bought up, stock piled and sold off to the criminal underclass later. Its a real shame that the idiots are ruining it for all the decent air gunners out there.

 

Why? I can never understand why shooters want ever more restrictions on their sport. It will only hinder us and it won't stop ***** behaving like ***** so what is the point?

 

J.

[JonathanL]

Good lord, some people are so quick to throw away their freedom, is it any wonder that shooting and gun ownership has been so decimated in this country? The last thing we need in this country is more knee-jerk anti-gun laws. Airgun crime is not even a significant problem, infact more people are shot by handguns than airguns each year. In all honesty if airguns go on FAC (i could just about tollerate a system similar to shotgun certificates), i think it will be the last straw for me with this country. I will not continue to live in an increasingly urban-centric, nanny state, inhabited by apathetic sheeple who throw away their rights at the drop of a hat, and i dont want my grandchildren to live in one either.

 

Im sorry about what happened to the poor kid, but if it wasnt an airgun, it would have been a slingshot or even just a rock (the latter two would probably have done far more harm than an airgun). Stop blaming the weapon and start blaming the thug who thinks its acceptable to go around attacking 4 year old children for no reason. There are already laws in place to prevent and punish such behavoir, so use them to their full force. Dont bring in new laws that will only penalise the activities of millions of good, law abiding people.

 

Im not sorry for the rant

 

Agreed entirely.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

its not a matter of people throwing freedoms away; far from it - but one thing i am sure of, is eventually the regular misuse of air rifles by morons will end up costing us all.

 

it would be better for those with legitimate shooting interests to have a hand in control, rather than take a head-in-sand approach on the basis that doing anything else would be like 'throwing away freedoms'.

 

 

not a week passes by when i dont read stories in the press about air rifles being mis-used.

 

my idea ;

those already with a fac/sgc - automatically get the right to buy/use (on an 'open' basis) higher powered air rifle (say 30ft lb limit.

 

those without - cab get sub 12ft lb with a basic 'licence' of some descrption. (no land requirement)

 

And then they'll want to introduce the 'reasonble' measure of not giving FAC'SGC holders the automatic right to use them anywhere, the the 'reasonable' measure of not letting FAC/SGC holders the automatic right to acquire them, then the 'sensible' measure of restricting the power, etrc, etc, etc. Then, one day, we won't have any.

 

In the mean time, licensing departments will grind to a halt. Many departments already take 6 months to process an application or renewal - if airgun licensing is mandated that will easily double.

 

J.

 

Yes and no doubt you would despair even more if it was your child that took the pellet to the face , I am afraid its got to the stage where something needs to be done because it does not look like those that commit these crimes are ever going to be punished enough by the courts.

At the end of the day it looks like the law is going to go through in scotland and I guess that means it is only a matter of time before we follow suit IMO , do i want it no, do we need it ,I would say yes.

 

And that's what needs to be done - enforcing the law.

 

J.

[cant hit rabbits 123]

Why? I can never understand why shooters want ever more restrictions on their sport. It will only hinder us and it won't stop ***** behaving like ***** so what is the point?

 

J.

 

It may noy stop the hardened criminals, like I aid in my original post. However, it will deter or stop many who buy an air gun for shooting at next doors cat or for taking pot shots at other people for fun. I had an interesting and slightly scarry conversation once with someone who saw air guns as 'soft' guns and had no problem owning one for misuse by thier own admission. However, they then said that would not even consider aquiring a 'real' gun. As I have said, licensing makes the transition, in many non shooter minds, from air gun; 'toy', 'show piece' and 'not a real gun' to air gun; firearm. A non restrictive licesne would push out many who owned it for no good reason, but would allow those who wanted them for targets, hunting or even garden plinking to easily keep and use one.

 

Just my opinion, I'm not stating it as fact and no one has to accept it.

[Cake444]

About 5 years ago I use to work in a store that sold and specialise in airsoft guns, or as their known as now Realistic Imation Firearms. I worked there about a year prior to the VCR bill and the introduction of UKARA. Business was booming and many people came in to buy these toy guns with lots of gear to go with it all, and then go and skirmish at sites.

 

Then legislation kicked in and you needed to 'prove' you were an airsoft player by attending 'registered sites' were you would need to attend three games in about a month and get a book stamped. Then you would get an identity card with a number on that would link you to a UK database so when you bought another toy gun you could 'prove' you were a serious player.

 

Lots of people who were serious players got registered and kept playing. It also meant that idiotic people couldn’t own them anymore and roam the yard shooting at cats and other kids. The worst part of it though is that the sport died a lot, lots of UK shops shut like the one I worked at, and now nobody really wants to own these ‘toys’ because they are treated as real weapons by police.

 

That shouldn’t happen with air rifles, because they will gradually make you criminal until your hiding a Barnett Black Widow under your floorboards.

[Catweazle]

[DM Reader = ON] I can't believe unemployed scroungers can go around shooting our children like this, it shouldn't be allowed, hang 'em I say, it's the only language they understand, and what will it do to house prices - that's what I want to know, ban them all, nobody needs a gun, anybody who even wants one should be locked up and throw away the key, anarchists, and another thing - it's all those fuzzy wuzzies isn't it, send 'em back I say, I didn't work 50 hours a week so an immigrant can buy an airgun and shoot my children [/DM Reader]

 

But seriously, don't some of you think you've been influenced by the media hysteria a bit too much ?

 

I have every sympathy for the poor kid, I have children too, but one very rare case of abuse is no reason to licence 4 million airguns. Far more people are hurt by golf balls, or footballs, dogs, swings, cars, conkers etc. etc.

 

Now someone is bound to write "if it saves just one life...." which is the mantra of the lunatic left whenever they try to ban something, followed by "if it was your child....", but there is a good reason why laws are made by dispassionate and independent people rather than by relatives of victims. I'm sure that the mother of a toddler grazed on a swing would want to ban them all, but we know it isn't sensible. Same with airguns.