stockman Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Hi guys. I wondered if any of you could shed some light on what is the minimum barrel length on a sect 1 shotgun. I have a Remmy 870 pump 5+1 which I use on crow nests with a 20 inch barrel. The overall length of the gun is 41 inches,does the 24inch minimum barrel length (as on shotgun certs) count or is it the overall length?. Likewise I have a Saiga .410 semi auto on a section 1 and its overall length is 42 inches but its barrel length is 21 inches,suffice to say I m a bit confused now and not least a bit worried in case the shotguns now fall into section 5. I would appreciate your views Cheers Stockman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Shotguns which are prohibited consist of: Any self-loading or pump-action smoothbore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or (excluding any detachable, folding, retractable or other moveable butt-stock) is less than 40 inches in length overall (section 5(1)(ac)); G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Hi guys.I wondered if any of you could shed some light on what is the minimum barrel length on a sect 1 shotgun. I have a Remmy 870 pump 5+1 which I use on crow nests with a 20 inch barrel. The overall length of the gun is 41 inches,does the 24inch minimum barrel length (as on shotgun certs) count or is it the overall length?. Likewise I have a Saiga .410 semi auto on a section 1 and its overall length is 42 inches but its barrel length is 21 inches,suffice to say I m a bit confused now and not least a bit worried in case the shotguns now fall into section 5. I would appreciate your views Cheers Stockman. I would check the use i believe if you use them on a birds nest its illegal even crows. If im wrong someone will soon correct me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 I believe you can shoot nests out but not when in use,or I shall also be corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 I am pretty sure both of those guns would be section 5. Where are you measuring the barrel from? Tha barrel is measured from the base of an inserted cartridge to the tip of the end of the barrel. If they are still short, call BASC, check their status as a 'hypothetical' and if he agrees they are section 5 then asap get a tube welded to the end of each barrel to make it 24" <EDIT> Pretty sure you can shoot the nests of anything listed on the DEFRA quarry list. Lifted from the general license: (i) any authorised person to kill or take any of the wild birds listed in this subparagraph, to take, damage or destroy their nests or to take or destroy their eggs: Crow Corvus corone (ii) the use of a semi-automatic weapon by authorised persons acting under subparagraph (2)(i) above; </EDIT> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 beaten to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockman Posted September 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Thanks for your replys but its still clear as mud!, as I said is it the overall length that is taken into consideration or barrel length?. If its overall length then no problem. Its confusing to say the least cos I had my FAC renewal a few months back and nothing was said then. My rifles barrels range from a 12inch carbon fibre match barrel on my 10/22,a 20 inch barrel on my .357 winchester legacy and 20inch barrel on my .223 ruger mini14 and they are all legal no question. I just presumed that since my shotguns were sect 1 that they came under the same criteria. The annoying thing is that my 870 was cut down 10years ago by a local gunsmith,you would think that he would have said something if it was illegal and also the saiga was bought new with this barrel length as standard. Confused confused confused!!. One thing I am sure of is that there is no restriction on shooting crows in scotland be they in nests or not. I have an 80acre crow wood on my farm which when I applied for my FAC shotguns,I specifically said that they were primarily for shooting emerging and branching crows as well as all other vermin control. Many thanks for your help though lads. Cheers now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 >was cut down 10years They might have been legal sub 24" pre Dunblane '97 I am not sure when the law came into effect. (althought I think it was '88 after hungerford) I am 99% sure that any shotgun has to have a 24" barrel if it is a pump or semi to be sec 1 or 2. They are also restricted to an over all length of 40" or more. A non pump/semi shotgun can have a barrel less than 24" but must still be 40" over all. Like I said, ring BASC tomorrow and clarify it. Reason the shotgun barrel length differs to a rifle on a sec.1 fac is that they are semi/pump (Sec 5 on any centre fire rifle in anything other than .22lr). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 As far as I am aware it is only the barrel length that matters on a shotgun. Under 24" and it becomes section 1. The overall length may come into play to get rid assault style shotguns with the folding stocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockman Posted September 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Thanks for that Martin but this is where it gets confusing. You see this shotgun is already a section 1 on my FAC ,do you mean a section 5?. Im thinking that to play it safe,the best thing to do would be to scrap it and sell all the add on bits on ebay!. Cheers for your thoughts though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 <EDITED cos it was incorrect info > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 If your shotguns are already section 1 then I assume the police know about them? so they are legal. I would have thought they will conditions on them like only for vermin control or practical shotgun at an approved club. Where's the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il cacciatore Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Just spoke with BASC and they said that it can go down as far as 30cm barrel and 60cm overall for a Sec 1. Therfore your barrels and shottys are pefectly legal Now I guess that is correct although to me it doesn't seem right... Kyle On the met police website it says for Section 5 (prohibited) Section 5 (1) (ac) any self-loading or pump-action smooth bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or is less than 40 inches in length overall. I'm pretty sure the BASC were refering to rifles cause it says: Section 5 (1) (aba) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30cm in length or is less than 60cm in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus. Here is the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 I C. That is exactly what I thought, I called my local plod and he suggested that when I spoke with BASC I might have said Sec. 1 shotty but didn't necessarily mention the fact it would be a pump or semi. If it is a pump or semi it does need to be 40" over all length end to end. Sorry for all the confusion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il cacciatore Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 What kind of section 1 shotguns can you get that arent semi or pump? I believe that new saiga 12 shotguns come with a 25" barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 >What kind of section 1 shotguns can you get that arent semi or pump? I too wondered that when he said it, I assume you can get rifled o/u 12 bores or maybe a rifled top and smooth bottom? Who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Sick Old Man Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 If the shot gun had a rifled barrel it would no longer be a smoothed bore gun, it would be a rifle and therefore Sect 1. A single or S/S smooth bore gun, which has barrels less than 24" long from breech to tip would be Sect 1. Solid slug or other types of heavy shotgun ammo are also Sect 1, but thats all a bit heavy. It is only pumps and semi autos that have to be 40 or more inches in lenght from the heel of the stock to tip of barrel, the barrel on ALL smooth bore weapons has to be 24 or more inches long or they are sect 1. So you can have a single barrel 410, that has a barrel of exactly 24 inches, and you can shorten the stock as much as you like. It will be **** but within the law, however if it was a semi or a pump then its overall lenght must be 40 inches. YIS Sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il cacciatore Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 This is real complicated.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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