Sport or slaughter ?

[dougall]

Anser,

in the life cycle of a shooter we all get more selective and perhaps it becomes less about the killing etc..in fact I think that is a fairly 'normal evolution in a shooting mans head'.It is however a bit rich to have 'done all your game shooting' and now have a go at other shooters,especially those still doing it and who enjoy it! Driven shooting as far as I am concerned is about mates/the craic etc.FIne you don't like it any more..well guess what DON'T DO IT!!! Its a bit like buying a house next to a railway station so its easy to commute to work and then once you have retired complaining about the noise of the trains. I do respect your point of view,but I am not sure preaching at other shooters who do what you used to do on here is the right place..this is after all a shooting forum.

As an aside I actually personally am not mad on shooting ducks/geese....but boy I shall defend yours and anyone elses right to shoot them.Wildfowlers are often portrayed as different breed,you certainly earn your bag on the foreshore....but please don't become an inverted snob about it.

[al4x]

Alex

 

You're wasting your time. Remember you're arguing with a bunch of masochists who would prefer to stand up to their armpits in freezing mud, at some ungodly hour, on the off chance they may shoot one single duck. Some seem to delight in wandering aimlessly up and down a few hedges with their half trained mut on the off chance they can bag one of next doors pheasants, at a full 10 yards, that they have encouraged onto "their" land with a few crumbled Weetabix.

 

 

this seems quite appropriate to quote after the last but one post

 

the only thing that stops me shooting bigger bags are the depth of my wallet, I had a stand last year where I shot 15 corking cock birds absolutely fantastic beaters day on a stand where in years gone by royalty have stood and shot. I'll never forget the experience, it was nothing like clay shooting it was far from greedy as we left all hens and low birds just an awesome stand, on what was a very good day. Not massive under 300 birds but I suppose that counts as a big day in norfolk. Its how us paupers in the shires get our driven shooting, that and small syndicates that buy in reared birds and feed and look after to give our few days sport. One things for sure it will be a serious fight before the Norfolk boys make us give it up.

Edited October 19, 2012 by al4x

[CharlieT]

And Charlie T I thought you were a wildfowler ! Well you claimed to be a year or so ago in a post on Canada geese. Where you get the idea from that I pot off some reared pheasants that have wandered off the local estate from when you do know where I shoot. In Norfolk for rough shooting there is no need to rear birds , Norfolk drips with wild game in a good year and in a poor year we only shoot a few and restrict ourselves to cocks only. There is no game rearing for 7 miles around my marshland shoot. One local estate a few miles away manage a dozen days shooting with 100+ bags on purely wild birds. So on my Norfolk shoot to claim i am shooting birds that have just wandered over the boundary is rubbish. It seems to me from your post its the social side of shooting you like rather than the sport itself. One of the very reasons why I no longer shoot driven game as many of the guns i shot with had little interest in the birds themselves , but would prefer to chat about the markets or politics or the best wine available this year.

 

And which category, pray tell me, do you fall into ?.................................

 

 

 

sense of humour failure

When someone either finds an obvious joke offensive or takes it dead serious, they are said to have had a "sense of humour" failure.

 

However, it cannot be applied to those who never had a sense of humour to start with.

 

This condition is more common amongst the grumpy, tired and irrationally angry sects of society, with the most common manifestation being women on their period or guys whose girlfriend is on their period.

[Scully]

And Scully you may think its funny to alter quotes from people , but this is suposed to be serious debate and for me the sport in shooting is only half the reason to go. The other is to eat what I shoot. If I have the choice between shooting a goldeneye offering a difficult shot and a simple mallard I take the mallard as it is the only one worth eating.

My apologies,but I couldn't take the pomposity of your post seriously;I mean to say,'harvested'?What are you afraid of?

I agree,this is a serious debate for me also,but unlike you I'm not afraid to recognise that I'm killing for my own pleasure.I also eat what I shoot(unless it's vermin)but try telling this to the antis and their next question is,'why can't you just buy your meat from the butchers,like most people?'

What is your answer to that anser2?

I was asked this question on the LACS website blog a while ago,and gave a frank and truthful answer,and then asked her why some people who oppose shooting still eat meat,bearing in mind they don't need to eat meat to survive.If they cared as much as they claimed about animals,then why were they condoning the killing of an animal by eating its meat.The answer is simple...they're eating meat because they ENJOY it!.A tad hypocritical?Not so unlike yourself perhaps?....who by your own admission has done their fair share of raising '1000's of game birds' and also been involved in shooting them,but is now frowning on those who still do it.

Serious debate?Really?

[anser2]

I said harvested because thats what i do. Wildfowling , rough shooting , and pigeon shooting takes a surpless of wild birds that would in the main be lost to the population during the winter. I do not buy game from a butchers because i am able to of getting it myself and beleve wild birds have a much better life than farm reared animals. I did not say I had shot 1000s of game birds , in the main i reared them for selling them on to some one else. Having said that I have shot 100s of pheasants over the years , but when I have had enough I stop and do not keep on killing them because I can. The point i am trying to get over is its the public that need convincing that shooting is a reasonable sport to carry on in the future not me and killing large bags is not the way to do it. I would guess I have perhaps 10 years of shooting left before I have to give up shooting , but I want the sport to out live me which is looking doubtful given some of the opinions expressed on here. Too many shooters and just carry on as though they do not give a damm what other countryside people think . Hare coursers thought this way and look what has happened to their sport! My main sport has undergone major change since i started wildfowling, free shooting on the foreshore has gone , the list of quarry species has shrunk and we had to buy new guns to use non toxic shot. But wildfowlers can still enjoy the sport , because they saw what was comming and though there was a lot of screaming and kicking they have embraced the changes. If other forms of shooting do not open their eyes I wonder how long they will continue.

 

Al4x once again you are making up words that I for one have never said. Nobody in Norfolk has said they are going to make you give up big bags , but I for one have sounded a warning if things do not change in the future.

 

Dougall I have already said I do not do organised game shooting any more.

 

Charley T quote " And which category, pray tell me, do you fall into ? " I shoot almost every thing on the quarry list that is found in my area, game , vermin , pigeons and wildfowl.

Edited October 19, 2012 by anser2

[Scully]

The most I have ever shot in a days driven shooting,when the total bag was over 400,was 23,and each and every one of them was eaten,and this would still have been the case if those numbers had been reversed.

Hare coursing was deemed to be a cruel 'sport',as was fox hunting;the antis making much of the fact that the Hare,Fox suffered unnecessarily,but even when you point out to antis that shooting is the more humane alternative,they inevitably respond with the 'but not everything you shoot dies instantly',which is a point that most shooters cannot deny 100% of the time,and this includes all quarry species.This is an unfortunate aspect of shooting live animals and creatures,so why do we continue to do it in the face of this fact?You've guessed it...because we enjoy shooting,and are prepared to accept(albeit reluctantly) the fact we may cause unnecessary suffering in order to continue that enjoyment.If you can't handle this,perhaps it's time to call it a day.

You can call it 'harvesting' if it sits easier on your mind anser2,but you're still killing them for your own satisfaction.

The fact some game birds are bred and reared purely for one purpose is neither here nor there; ALL quarry species are shot for one reason,and one reason only...and guess what that is?

[ColinF]

Harnser and anser2 are proposing that "large" bags are bringing shooting in to disrepute and that game shooting should be restricted to a few birds for the pot. In my opinion, this type of restriction is completely pointless and unworkable, who would set and police bag sizes? Even if this were possible, commercial shoots would have to close as they wouldn't be viable on such small bags, and the massive acreage of cover crop currently grown across the country would be returned to farmland. Gamekeepers would be redundant, and all the conservation work and predator control that they undertake would be lost, which would have detrimental affect on many species of wildlife, not just game birds. Without the care and attention of gamekeepers and topping up via releasing, "wild" stocks of game would be significantly reduced. Driven shooting would effectively be finished, wildfowling and walked up shooting would become easy targets for the anti's to pick off. Pandering to the anti's and limiting bags to levels you think will be acceptable, in the hope that other types of shooting will be allowed to continue, is ridiculous. It will just be one step closer to their goal of banning all types of live quarry shooting.

 

Like it or not, commercial game shooting is big business, but this is one of the benefits as shooters spend a fortune on associated goods and services, and this money goes directly in to rural areas. The large amounts of money changing hands for shooting also supports thousands of jobs, usually in rural areas where there is often little other employment, especially during the winter months. As long as the general public is aware that shot game ends up in the food chain, they are more accepting of game shooting. This was identified by the Countryside Alliance and lead to the Game To Eat campaign, which was used to educate the average man and woman in the street about the benefits of eating game. As game is now available in most supermarkets tis has obviously had some success.

 

Anyone who shoots live quarry should support all other forms of shooting, whether they choose to participate or not. If you want game shooting to be available to your grandchildren, we all need to stick togther and do our bit to promote the benefits of all types of shooting.