Thunderbird Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Too bloody right it does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) This sums up everything that's gone wrong with this country. Politicians, lawyers and judges telling people what to think. No-one is compelled to patronise a private business, they can always go elsewhere. If you don't like the B&B or the people who run it, choose another. If the owners of the business in question choose to politely decline business from certain customers that is their affair. Incitement to harm is the only area that should concern the law. You can't legislate personal preferences and beliefs out of life. You don't get 'fairness' just censorship and a population shuffling through life with their heads down pretending to think the same state-approved thoughts, and seething with resentment in private, which is far more corrosive to society than allowing adults to speak their differences in a civilised manner and navigate their own way through life. The public sector is a different matter because most people have no choice but to deal with it, so it has to be all things to all people. What happens if the situation is reversed and someone arrives at a B&B and finds the proprietors are homosexuals and for whatever reason decides they'd rather try somewhere else? Can the owners sue for loss of earnings and hurt feelings? Good God Britain, get a grip. As for homosexuals, look you can vote, join the army, form civil partnerships and legally sodomise sixth-form schoolboys. What more do you want for heaven's sake? :yp: Edited October 21, 2012 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Marty Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 My father worked in England in the Seventies and has photos in the house of signs in the windows of bars and B&Bs saying no Dogs or Irish,so although I may not agree with Gays I don't think you can pick and choose who in your eyes is worthy of there service.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 This sums up everything that's gone wrong with this country. Politicians, lawyers and judges telling people what to think. No-one is compelled to patronise a private business, they can always go elsewhere. If you don't like the B&B or the people who run it, choose another. If the owners of the business in question choose to politely decline business from certain customers that is their affair. Incitement to harm is the only area that should concern the law. You can't legislate personal preferences and beliefs out of life. You don't get 'fairness' just censorship and a population shuffling through life with their heads down pretending to think the same state-approved thoughts, and seething with resentment in private, which is far more corrosive to society than allowing adults to speak their differences in a civilised manner and navigate their own way through life. The public sector is a different matter because most people have no choice but to deal with it, so it has to be all things to all people. What happens if the situation is reversed and someone arrives at a B&B and finds the proprietors are homosexuals and for whatever reason decides they'd rather try somewhere else? Can the owners sue for loss of earnings and hurt feelings? Good God Britain, get a grip. As for homosexuals, look you can vote, join the army, form civil partnerships and legally sodomise sixth-form schoolboys. What more do you want for heaven's sake? :yp: We can all rant till we're blue in the face - don't get me wrong Gimlet, I normally enjoy your posts and do I agree with you - but until they change the law (which they won't), I'm afraid we're stuck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 This sums up everything that's gone wrong with this country. Politicians, lawyers and judges telling people what to think. No-one is compelled to patronise a private business, they can always go elsewhere. If you don't like the B&B or the people who run it, choose another. If the owners of the business in question choose to politely decline business from certain customers that is their affair. Incitement to harm is the only area that should concern the law. You can't legislate personal preferences and beliefs out of life. You don't get 'fairness' just censorship and a population shuffling through life with their heads down pretending to think the same state-approved thoughts, and seething with resentment in private, which is far more corrosive to society than allowing adults to speak their differences in a civilised manner and navigate their own way through life. The public sector is a different matter because most people have no choice but to deal with it, And i thought we had moved on from the 50's and 60's prejudices . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 My father worked in England in the Seventies and has photos in the house of signs in the windows of bars and B&Bs saying no Dogs or Irish,so although I may not agree with Gays I don't think you can pick and choose who in your eyes is worthy of there service.... Is the sign just not an expression of 1. not wanting to clean up dog poo and second, trying to avoid the constant religeous, political, sectarian arguments which tended to be Irish conversation then - not to mention the usual resultant punch-up from those unable or unwilling to settle their differences by discussion. I know what you mean but how do you express genuine concern in a small sign other thn by apparent discrimination ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 And i thought we had moved on from the 50's and 60's prejudices . The only thing that's changed are the laws. Racism, intolerance and discrimination is still alive and kicking in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Is the sign just not an expression of 1. not wanting to clean up dog poo and second, trying to avoid the constant religeous, political, sectarian arguments which tended to be Irish conversation then - not to mention the usual resultant punch-up from those unable or unwilling to settle their differences by discussion. I know what you mean but how do you express genuine concern in a small sign other thn by apparent discrimination ? Those signs stereotyped whole members of society,not everyone is a screaming queen or a whisky drinking/fighting irishman,but by having them you enforce a view,and that view is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 The only thing that's changed are the laws. Racism, intolerance and discrimination is still alive and kicking in the UK. That's my point. Using legislation to standardise thought and opinion merely papers over the elelphant in the room. It doesn't go away and no-one's really happy with the situation but they keep quiet and practice collective denial for the sake of conformity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Those signs stereotyped whole members of society,not everyone is a screaming queen or a whisky drinking/fighting irishman,but by having them you enforce a view,and that view is wrong. And so with the Laws, they also enforce a view, not necessarily of the majority but of the ruling political elite and in many eyes, that is also wrong. I will put my head on the block here and say it has been stated that Homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice but a product of genetics, ie you are born that way. I was also born the way I am and that means if I see two men holding hands or kissing I get a feeling of revulsion. There are no laws that can stop that but the law says I cannot express my feelings. Watching two men kiss offends me deeply but I could not sue anyone for hurting my feelings because that is intolerance in the eyes of the Law yet that same law has awarded compensation for hurt feelings to those two who were refused a bed. I dont have objections to gay people for being gay but If someone is gay, fine, but dont ram it in everyones face and then expect compensation when they dont like it....No pun intended. Too many now see it as a personal crusade to attempt to upset people and then start screaming and playing the homophobic card when they succeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 And so with the Laws, they also enforce a view, not necessarily of the majority but of the ruling political elite and in many eyes, that is also wrong. I will put my head on the block here and say it has been stated that Homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice but a product of genetics, ie you are born that way. I was also born the way I am and that means if I see two men holding hands or kissing I get a feeling of revulsion. There are no laws that can stop that but the law says I cannot express my feelings. Watching two men kiss offends me deeply but I could not sue anyone for hurting my feelings because that is intolerance in the eyes of the Law yet that same law has awarded compensation for hurt feelings to those two who were refused a bed. I dont have objections to gay people for being gay but If someone is gay, fine, but dont ram it in everyones face and then expect compensation when they dont like it....No pun intended. Too many now see it as a personal crusade to attempt to upset people and then start screaming and playing the homophobic card when they succeed You are entitled to any feelings you have toward gay people or any other members of society,it is when you start to treat people differently that it becomes wrong,and if you supply services to the public you cannot pick and choose.We could take it all the way down the i don't like road by stating that all Jews are money grabbing......oh hang on someone did that and segregated a whole race just because he didn't like them,how far do you want to go in your views toward members of society that are different to yourself? The thought police will not chase you for what you think,and you are entitled to your views and opinions,but for every gay couple walking down the road holding hands and kissing another 20 have probably walked past you without you noticing,but you choose to perpetuate the notion that they are all hand holding and kissing as they walk down the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 but you choose to perpetuate the notion that they are all hand holding and kissing as they walk down the street. Incorrect, I said that was what I found repulsive, not that all gays do it or that I find all gays repulsive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 You are entitled to any feelings you have toward gay people or any other members of society,it is when you start to treat people differently that it becomes wrong,and if you supply services to the public you cannot pick and choose.We could take it all the way down the i don't like road by stating that all Jews are money grabbing......oh hang on someone did that and segregated a whole race just because he didn't like them,how far do you want to go in your views toward members of society that are different to yourself? The thought police will not chase you for what you think,and you are entitled to your views and opinions,but for every gay couple walking down the road holding hands and kissing another 20 have probably walked past you without you noticing,but you choose to perpetuate the notion that they are all hand holding and kissing as they walk down the street. There is a substantial difference between politely declining to do business with people and perpetrating industrial genocide. Please don't conflate the two, that also has been done before ad nauseum and its very silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 There is a substantial difference between politely declining to do business with people and perpetrating industrial genocide. Please don't conflate the two, that also has been done before ad nauseum and its very silly. It's not silly because that's where it always ends up.I was showing that from small movements huge things potentially happen. Thin end of the wedge. There is a difference between declining to do business with the local drug dealer or the "wide boy" to declining "politely" do do business with a whole class of society. In my job i meet all sorts,race gender and just plain weird,but they all get the same treatment, i just carry on treating people all the same,life is to short to to hate/dislike people because they are different to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) I'm not going down the religious route. I just genuinely don't understand how the subject of who's gay and who isn't keeps rearing it's head. I'm not gay, but I may or may not have some weird sexual preferences, but if I did, that's for me and the mrs to know and not public knowledge. Why does the "gay card" need to be aired publically? What does it have to do with anything? The couple in question must surely have mentioned the fact they are gay or they would not have been refused. Walshie, you deffo have some weird sexual preferences I've seen your contributions to the 3 word story !!! So what's Mungler going to do with his 3k? I'm yet to hear his side of the story. New boxing gloves ? Edited October 21, 2012 by spanj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 i havent heard about this but like walshie i assumed hotel owners had the rights to refuse if they so wished, maybe it is the case and maybe it isnt.. but even if they do have that right if they openly said no because someone is gay then they broke the law.. its not down to our views as we all have them for and against, its down to the law, and a law made in a christian country... persoanlly i believe if they did refuse solely because they where gay then they deserved a fine, £3k is a lot though Really, as stated elsewhere you should be able to do business with whoever you want and not with who you dont............ The mistake made was probably saying why they didnt want to. Let people assume all they like and lets be honest they didnt cause them any embarrassment , financial loss or withold any essential (ie lifesaving) services did they Pretty much sums it up for me. Yes, the discrimination laws were broken but to be paid compensation for 'injury to feelings' is pretty lame. They must realise that not everyone likes or condones their way of life. Their 'feelings' must be in constant turmoil. I fully understand that lots of people don't like the fact that I shoot and kill things. Are my 'feelings' injured? Are they ****!! Some people need to get a grip. Yet again, agree with you poontang........... this is becoming a habit !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Contextualise this a bit please. They had bisexual feelings and perhaps chose to focus one one gender over another? Drop it mate, you sound a bit like Tatchell ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Walshie, you deffo have some weird sexual preferences I've seen your contributions to the 3 word story !!! One man's weird is another man's normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Ah Tatchell, the man who wants the age of consent down to 14...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Ah Tatchell, the man who wants the age of consent down to 14...... Is this true ? I really didnt know that if so, the dirty b*gger........... isnt this what everybodys screaming against Jimmy Saville for ? Edited October 21, 2012 by spanj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) It's not silly because that's where it always ends up.I was showing that from small movements huge things potentially happen. Thin end of the wedge. There is a difference between declining to do business with the local drug dealer or the "wide boy" to declining "politely" do do business with a whole class of society. In my job i meet all sorts,race gender and just plain weird,but they all get the same treatment, i just carry on treating people all the same,life is to short to to hate/dislike people because they are different to yourself. Absolute nonsense. Refusing to allow two men to share a bed on your premises because you are a fuddy-duddy Church of England prude who doesn't quite like that sort of thing and ordering the industrial extermination of 6 million people because you're mental is not the same thing at all. It just isn't. And the former does not irrevocably lead to latter. To condemn as a Nazi in the making any person whose social outlook does not align with your own is in itself fascist. The diversity industry with its thought control tendencies and spurious moral authority creates the precise opposite of its stated objective. The fervid belief your views must be adopted by all is where Nazism began, it is not the antidote. Live and let live works both ways. It is the true adult settlement. Edited October 21, 2012 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Absolute nonsense. Refusing to allow two men to share a bed on your premises because you are a fuddy-duddy Church of England prude who doesn't quite like that sort of thing and ordering the industrial extermination of 6 million people because you're mental is not the same thing at all. It just isn't. And the former does not irrevocably lead to latter. To condemn as a Nazi in the making any person whose social outlook does not align with your own is in itself fascist. The diversity industry with its thought control tendencies and spurious moral authority creates the precise opposite of its stated objective. The fervid belief your views must be adopted by all is where Nazism began, it is not the antidote. Live and let live works both ways. It is the true adult settlement. I am sorry if i was being abstruse but i was showing where these arguments usually end up and was making the point earlier rather than later,and taking it to the nth degree.I was not calling anyone a nazi,just showing worst case scenario. I have stated that i treat all people the same as life is to short, which is the same as live and let live. All people are free to have an opinion on anything they so wish,it is when to try to get support for that opinion that things can go wrong, if that opinion is to hate someone else. This is just a forum,and as such should be treated with a pinch of salt,and i relish the way that all thoughts and opinions are stated on it,and most of us realise that it is just a forum and hold nothing against each other when the thread is finished,but there are a few who make statements that they also carry through into the real world. And i can see your point about the diversity industry,but surely that is a small minority who by enlarge are ignored by the populous who are intelligent enough to see through them.,it is up to the sane minded in society to TRY and keep the balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 And i can see your point about the diversity industry,but surely that is a small minority who by enlarge are ignored by the populous who are intelligent enough to see through them.,it is up to the sane minded in society to TRY and keep the balance. Quite so. That is precisely right. Unfortunately it all goes wrong when governments try to set commonsense in legislative concrete. If governments and courts are kept out of these matters commonsense and common decency get a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.