Guest Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Got a 12 month old black lab and she's well on with her training. She will retrieve dummies to hand every time in and out of water and last week introduced her to a woodie which again was no problem. Had a pointer trail on our estate the other week so thought i'd bring back a pheasant for her to try. Picked the smallest hen bird I could find, made her sit and stay then threw it. I sent her on it and she marked it straight away but then looked back at me as if to say what on earth do you want me to do with this? Didn't throw it again as I didnt want to put her off... Any help really appreciated as shes doing so well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 With hindsight blowing the recall the moment when she sniffed it would have fetched her running pheasant in mouth. Try again, then if no joy throw one for her even let her / encourage her to run in for the retrieve the once! they do this sometimes on different quarry duck, waders and woodcock being common but it can be anything, mine wouldn't do a dead jackdaw till i threw it and sent him straight in while mid air the last week. Don't fret you will get this sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilo17 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 My sprocker was like this, what i did was, I threw a dummy a few times let her retrive it then gave her loads of praise, then threw the bird and she retrived it, she is still a little bit iffy if she has not seen game in a while. Giles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Tuck the head under the wings and bind together, I'd also pull the tail feather out. This will encourage a good positive hold when she picks it. I'd do any of the above, but my favoured approach is to leave all other retrieving aids in the bag, just go out with the pheasant Throw it out, you pick it up do this three times on the third send the dog for it then call it a day, if it retrieves then repeat this process the day after for a week, if she doesn't retrieve then give her no opportunity to retrieve but let her see you throw it out and fetch it back. she'll soon get so board that she'll want to retrieve anything you send her for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Have you tried attaching pheasant feathers to one of your dummies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 A trick I've used in the past on an unwilling dog is to cut the wings off the pheasant and tie them to her favorite dummy. Having said that 12 months is still young so don't push her too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETO Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I used a rather different way when introducing my youngest (probably too young but hey) to pheasant. I made a game out of it. Let her run in on it, let her sniff it, then ran towards her near it and then when she picked it up, I ran away. We did this a few times until she understood it was a retrieve article and then she was fine. Once she had it though I stopped and got a ball out to play with instead. You could always - as others have suggested - cut the wings off and put them on a dummy. Or put the bird in a leg of tights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 A trick I've used in the past on an unwilling dog is to cut the wings off the pheasant and tie them to her favorite dummy. Having said that 12 months is still young so don't push her too hard. I have used above before. I have also just used a wing on its own, thrown about, difficult for a dog to resist. Then move onto the dummy with wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 My dog was the same with pigeons, I heard about a trick using an old pair of tights which worked brilliantly. Put the bird in one of the legs of the tights and throw it like a dummy, the dog retrieved it no problem. After a few retrieves, tear a small hole in the material to expose jsut a few feathers. keep repeating the process, exposing a few more feathers, then a wing etc. After no time at all the dog was retrieving a whole bird - worked a treat. Then it was a year befor I went pigeon shooting again and I had to start from scratch!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 My dog was the same with pigeons, I heard about a trick using an old pair of tights which worked brilliantly. Put the bird in one of the legs of the tights and throw it like a dummy, the dog retrieved it no problem. After a few retrieves, tear a small hole in the material to expose jsut a few feathers. keep repeating the process, exposing a few more feathers, then a wing etc. After no time at all the dog was retrieving a whole bird - worked a treat. Then it was a year befor I went pigeon shooting again and I had to start from scratch!! This is a very good way and my favourite for a bird shy dog I don't think they like the wings and feathers flapping around etc so keeping these tidy etc seems to certainly help..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 its apparent on threads like this how many dogs rarely see dead game, i know everyone cant live in Hill billy land were the dogs get exposed on an almost daily basis but its important a gundog gets regular exposure. drying out wings and attaching them to dummies is a must as far as i am conserned in training real gundogs and i want them to flap loose and cover the dogs vision etc on occasions as this happens in real life. one should find it easy enough to amass quite a number of wings- even if it means raiding road kill with a pocket knife on occasions! like all things though if the dog is in anyway shy do it graduly, if its bold hold it back (if that contradiction makes scense your on the right lines i feel) The sock or pair of tights has been mentioned and i do this with the first few Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I used a rather different way when introducing my youngest (probably too young but hey) to pheasant. I made a game out of it. Let her run in on it, let her sniff it, then ran towards her near it and then when she picked it up, I ran away. We did this a few times until she understood it was a retrieve article and then she was fine. Once she had it though I stopped and got a ball out to play with instead. You could always - as others have suggested - cut the wings off and put them on a dummy. Or put the bird in a leg of tights. hey theres a guy who comes on here who had his Chessie pup pulling in ducks from the water when it was only weeks old, i saw the phone vidio - never a great plan IMO but it seemed to work the dog is a young adult in the field now. i dont expose a gundog trainee to dead game till its delivering other stuff as i like and totally adicted to retrieving BUT i used to get our lurchers on retrieving dead rabbits as soon as i could chance it, reason being they were going to catch them by accident out and about anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 hey theres a guy who comes on here who had his Chessie pup pulling in ducks from the water when it was only weeks old, i saw the phone vidio - never a great plan IMO but it seemed to work the dog is a young adult in the field now. Sounds like he had a 'Merican dog so was doing it the 'Merican way, Kent. Nothing wrong with it if you've got the delivery down at whatever weeks but also nothing wrong with it if the delivery's not down completely just yet either. Because the pup's picking game and carrying it - and it's a whole lot easier to get the obedience into them for delivery than to trigger the retrieving desire if it's lain fallow over x-many months. Agree with you that cold game - or cold game parts - is a "must" exposure sooner rather than later too. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Sounds like he had a 'Merican dog so was doing it the 'Merican way, Kent. Nothing wrong with it if you've got the delivery down at whatever weeks but also nothing wrong with it if the delivery's not down completely just yet either. Because the pup's picking game and carrying it - and it's a whole lot easier to get the obedience into them for delivery than to trigger the retrieving desire if it's lain fallow over x-many months. Agree with you that cold game - or cold game parts - is a "must" exposure sooner rather than later too. MG He wernt training the American way as he didn't force fetch or use a 'lectic collar LOL! i dont know much about late exposure puppies here they see dead game all the time but i dont let them mess or play with it unless its a foxing or deer dog, neither do i chastise or encourage interest in the slain with a dog expected to rerieve. Dogs without much retrieving drive bred in are better started young, i did this with all my lurchers. As i pluck birds out back and there is often a fair few feathers difting about a pup might sniff or play with them as much as it pleases but i am not about to chuck a 3mnth old pup a dead mallard no matter how many sausage its run around holding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I always have pups picking game early - generally about 12 weeks - and I haven't had a dog that won't retrieve whatever I send it for. Training is all done on dummies then cold game, but some early conditioning to fur and feather has always served me well. To the OP, wings on a dummy may help the transition but if she has picked a pigeon she probably just needs a bit more encouragement or a simpler retrieve. Just make it a few yards, wind her up with the bird and let her run in if she wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I always have pups picking game early - generally about 12 weeks - and I haven't had a dog that won't retrieve whatever I send it for. Training is all done on dummies then cold game, but some early conditioning to fur and feather has always served me well. Right on, Will. Kent, sorry to blow up your punch line about e-collars and force fetch, but the American way is water retrieving - - as picking game from the wet stuff offers far greater odds of success when introducing a pup to retrieves on cold or fresh-shot game. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclestuffy Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Don't be too eager to take the bird from the dog - with our dog I let him run around with the bird in his mouth and enjoy the retrieve before calling him in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 each has thier own ways. Like i previously stated i started lurchers young on real game as retrieving aint an in bred desire in them, many other lines of gundog need the same or similar treatment ( i should just avoid them we aint short of good lines ). I know some retriever guys who stop all rubber ball retrieving etc once the pup shows intrest and just work on obediance till its needed again. some spaniel guys 100% belive in having to start them young ( i supose i sit somwere in the middle? much preffering play training, leading on in stages as and when i am happy with achievement levels- without fear of taking a step back as,when and if issues occur). I think introduction to dead stuff is fairly important at a young age, just retrieving it is better left alone till the pup is delivering well and views the game as find it and take it to the boss asap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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