worthy130 Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Do many Gwynedd shooters spend Monday hanging around at home waiting for plod to arrive unannounced ? Wonder if this is due to a new PCC as north Wales police cover all of north Wales not just Gwynedd don't see how it would be just Gwynedd unless there is one FLO for the county who is doing some spot checks no but if spouces give away key locations then bye bye guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 no but if spouces give away key locations then bye bye guns Spouces that dont have certificates should not know key locations............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy130 Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 EXACTLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parapilot Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) I would keep the BASC letter, and say if they knock iv been advised to refuse entry. Politely. Iv got nothing to hide, my guns are always locked away, being a locksmith I'm funny about security! But I would do it as a protest, I do not want uniformed police at my door, neighbors will start talking, think im a criminal, and it could bring attention to my guns, also if we don't try to stop these little fiddly checks what's next?? Life could start to get hard. If my feo knocked plain clothes etc wanting to check serials then he's welcome, but a couple of high vis coppers I'd feel like a criminal. Edited November 28, 2012 by parapilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Why would you leave your guns out overnight so that you could clean them in the morning?, unless they are in your bedroom then that is just inviting an issue if you were broken into. Personally I think the police should concentrate on shooters that they have specific intelligence are flouting the regulations rather that cast a net out. Doing that just creates tension with law abiding shooters and is a waste of a lot of police time. I wouldn't want uniformed officers turning up at the door with some of the neighbours round here, it is a security risk that could be avoided, having said that we have uniformed ARV's doing the checks here. Having said that if you have nothing to hide then there is nothing to worry about. Edited November 28, 2012 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I am afraid if uniformed police turned up at my house just to do a spot check then i would ask them to arrange a date in the future that was mutually convenient. I have been down the road of having all my rifles and shotguns removed,and i freely gave access to my property for them to be removed as i knew i had done nothing wrong and i co-operated to resolve the situation as fast as possible,it still took three months to have them returned with a letter stating i had done no wrong. But this seems to be a bit of a fishing exercise by the police,and smacks of a try to catch you out scenario. I would be polite but firm,they have no right of access,and they should give me prior notice of a visit,if it is just accepted that they can enter your property freely at any time then it will become the norm,and you can bet that a couple of times a year they will turn up unannounced. I think that the money being spent on this fairly pointless exercise could be put to better use by using it for the firearms department,making it more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Deleted. Edited November 29, 2012 by Albert 888 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Its pretty obvious that people in rural areas are pretty lax about locking their guns away. Thats not suprising, if you have been out with it in the morning and you know you are going out with it again probably in the evening the chances are you will stand it in the corner. To that extent I am not sure that it is even illegal, the gun is still 'in use' I suppose. The law only says when not in use it should be stored in the cabinet. If this is what all this is about it is just entrapment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Its pretty obvious that people in rural areas are pretty lax about locking their guns away. Thats not suprising, if you have been out with it in the morning and you know you are going out with it again probably in the evening the chances are you will stand it in the corner. To that extent I am not sure that it is even illegal, the gun is still 'in use' I suppose. The law only says when not in use it should be stored in the cabinet. If this is what all this is about it is just entrapment. The law makes absolutely no mention of cabinets. It does specify that 'to be stored securely at all times except ...(various conditions and exemptions) ...when the firearms or ammunition are in use' If you wanted to argue that a gun left in the corner that had been used earlier, and was going to be used later in the day, was 'in use' then you could do so. I'd expect a court would probably disagree with you, and I would not want to take the chance. My FEO told me a few months ago that NWP were probably going to start clamping down on this. The main culprits do appear to be farmers, according to her. One example of a visit that she told me was a serial number check, arrived at the farm, in the kitchen was the farmers 2 young children. Shotgun propped up in the corner. He got it for her, broke it open to hand to her, pulling out the live cartridges as he did so. Another case she told me about : arrived to inspect, the gun was in cabinet, but the cabinet was open. The owner (another farmer) did not know where the keys were, and had lost them a year or so before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Dear All, here is a copy of the letter we have sent to members in the area: Police conduct Firearms Security Operation From Monday Dec 3rd, North Wales Police will start an operation in South Gwynedd (Dwyfor, Eifionydd, and Meirionydd) involving spot checks on legally held firearms and ammunition. The force says it intends to check whether firearms and ammunition are securely stored when not in use. The operation will commence on 3rd December and involve a number of uniformed officers conducting ad-hoc, unannounced security checks BASC has seen a number of these spot check initiatives over the years. BASC’s policy has always been that we do not endorse them and we advise our members that they are not obliged to co-operate with them. These are the main points. • Spot checks go against Home Office Guidance: “Home visits should, wherever possible, be made by prior appointment and take place at a mutually convenient time”. • There is no automatic right of entry to inspect firearms security. The only times this is legal is with a magistrates’ warrant; when a revocation letter has been served or under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act in order to protect life or property; or to seize a firearm suspected of being used in crime. • Other than “reasonably practicable precautions” as mentioned in the security conditions on certificates, there are no statutory provisions on how the duty to store firearms securely should be discharged. Operational police officers are unlikely to understand this. If they see a gun out of a cabinet e.g. in preparation to go shooting, they may automatically assume a breach of the safe-keeping condition has occurred. • Operational uniformed officers do not necessarily have the training to deal with certificate holders. • A uniformed police presence may actually prejudice security by encouraging enquiries from neighbours as to why the police were present. • If there are specific incidents that have caused concern then those individuals who have transgressed need to be dealt with rather than assuming that all certificate holders are lax. • The unilateral imposition of such a local initiative does nothing to encourage partnership working between the police and certificate holders. • This is not a good use of operational police time especially when police budgets are being cut. • This has the potential to be used as a factor to inflate costs to seek heavy rises in firearms licensing fees. BASC does not support this initiative and advises that you are not obliged to cooperate with it. You do not have to give police officers access to your home. If you decline to co-operate, as is your right, this cannot be used against you and will not affect your certificate. If you feel that you have been bullied or harassed by a police officer who insists that he must inspect your security, please report the matter to BASC’s Firearms Team on 01244-573010. However the security of your firearms is important and you should adhere to the security conditions on your certificate. Lax security can lead to revocation of your certificate and loss of your sport. For tailored security advice contact BASC’s Firearms Team on 01244-573010. Yours Sincerely DEREK WILLIAMS BASC Country Officer Wales / Swyddog y Wlad, Cymru The Station House,Caersws,Powys,SY17 5HH. Tel: 01686-688861 e-mail derek.williams@basc.org.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy130 Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 LOL I see that Dereks name is on the letter ( we spoke about it the other day) However I have not recieved this letter David. Our keepers liason secritary informed us of the spot checks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_h Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 This is the North Wales Police news article http://www.north-wales.police.uk/news__appeals/latest_news/police_conduct_firearms_securi.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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