ordnance Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 I FIND THE MEDIA AND PEOPLE BANGING ON ABOUT THIS IS ONLY GLORIFYING THE SITUATION Hows discussing it glorifying it. ? Do you think people and the media should not discus it and pretend it didn't happen. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Any army base will have more armed sentries than even the largest university or school campus will ever have armed rent-a-cops, the "all the weapons were in the armoury" is just voodoo, as the shooter here took a number of rounds and is now paralysed. Have you read the time line of the shootings? All of the people killed were inside the base, the sentries are OUTSIDE the base. He was subdued when the sentries got to him. Sorry mate, but what's your point with the Wiki link? Can you not be bothered to click the link and read? An armed teacher prevented a spree shooter killing more people. The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother. Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing a trench coat, to hide his rifle when he entered the school, Woodham fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before attempting to leave in his mother's car.He was subdued by assistant principal Joel Myrick, who pulled a .45-cal. pistol from his car and ordered the gunman to the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) How many times did you have to shoot a burglar? How many times were you burgled? That's hardly the point though. I've never been in a car crash which would have had a likelihood of killing me and, statistically I will never be (and nor would the vast majority of the population), but I still wear a seat belt. J. Edited December 18, 2012 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravanelli Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 There have been about 48 gun deaths in the UK over the previous year or so. Very, very few are killed with legally held weapons. The majority being in London followed by Manchester, with 'dirty guns'. Since Dunblane many more have died. Its not about banning and stricter laws, its about education, particularly in the US There are 300 million guns in America. Any new laws wont make that much difference, sadly. All those children in Connecticut, RIP Rav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 i think most of you are missing the NRA'S point of view, most agree that a AWB wouldn't be the end of the world but the problem is the government is full of liars and scammers. you give them a inch they take a mile same as here, we put up so little fuss after hungerford with our AWB that when they wanted to ban pistols they knew they would come up against minimal resistance if the uk NRA or bass put in half the effort the US NRA do we would still be shooting semi autos, hand guns and also high cap shotguns on SGC the 2nd amendment give the right to bear arms to protect yourself, that includes protect yourself from a apperceive government Precisely! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) Hows discussing it glorifying it. ? Do you think people and the media should not discus it and pretend it didn't happen. ? when you have children the same age it brings it home what there parents are going through and people do not want reminding every 2 mins about the disaster that has happened.it is down to congress and the nra to sort, the american gun laws are outdated and need bringing into the 21st century. there laws on people been able to be armed for protection blah blah blah comes from the original congress that was written when there where cowboys and Indians, the only thing that has changed since 1800 is that they have allowed them to keep more guns and more ammo than ever before. Edited December 18, 2012 by delburt0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) There have been about 48 gun deaths in the UK over the previous year or so. Very, very few are killed with legally held weapons. The majority being in London followed by Manchester, with 'dirty guns'. Since Dunblane many more have died. Its not about banning and stricter laws, its about education, particularly in the US There are 300 million guns in America. Any new laws wont make that much difference, sadly. All those children in Connecticut, RIP Rav nice words rav the damage is done the american government over the last 250 has caused this massacre to become reality with the more relaxed gun-laws and assessments of fac holders, as you get this in any country even the uk, all governments can learn lessons from this and i hope to god it never happens again.but unfortunately none of us know what a serial killer or maniac looks like not even a fao "thats what it boils down to". Edited December 18, 2012 by delburt0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think you are exaggerating a bit. You are getting mixed up; your graph shows causes of death an the US yet the point you responded to was that they were the country with the highest level of gun death in the world. That is not true - other countries, notably Brazil have hugely more firearms deaths and have much, much, much more restrictive laws on gun ownership. It was only a couple of years ago, for instance, that Brazil got very close indeed to banning all firearms ownership and even all gun manufacture even if they were to be exported! Mexico is nearly as bad. In contrast, I belive that Finland has a higher rate of gun ownership than the USA. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 That't hardly the point though. I've never been in a car crash which would have had a liklihood of killing me and, statistically I will never be (and nor would the vast majority of the population), but I still wear a seat belt. J. Actually it is the point! wearing a seatbelt in the UK is a legal requirement like a helmet for bikers, not a legal requirement in all US states (bike helmet)? Plenty of people don't wear seatbelts, and still survive crashes but wearing a seatbelt increases your chance of survival in crash. Owning a gun does not reduce the chance of you being burgled or of you being shot at it. The evidence would suggest it actually increases it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 when you have children the same age it brings it home what there parents are going through and people do not want reminding every 2 mins about the disaster that has happened. This thread is not about what happened in Connecticut but american gun laws in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 This thread is not about what happened in Connecticut but american gun laws in general. the damage is done the american government over the last 250 has caused this massacre to become reality with the more relaxed gun-laws and assessments of fac holders, as you get this in any country even the uk, all governments can learn lessons from this and i hope to god it never happens again.but unfortunately none of us know what a serial killer or maniac looks like not even a fao "thats what it boils down to". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 and assessments of fac holders, as you get this in any country even the uk, all governments can learn lessons from this and i hope to god it never happens again. All the checks and assessments in the UK did not stop this happening. The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree that occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others. So what makes you think it would make any difference if the same checks were applied in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 He used a Bushmaster AR-15 as his primary weapon. He also had a 10mm Glock (he used it to kill himself), and a Sig 9mm that he never fired. Politicians are doing their hardest to demonize the AR-15, but banning it is pretty much impossible. It's literally the most popular rifle in the country. And it won't make any difference. He could have done at least as much damage with either of the pistols he had access to. Even with a magazine restriction of 10 rounds then so what? A magazine change takes about 1 second. It is totally bloody shocking, to be honest. Scumbag, ambulance-chasing Democrats seeking votes on the shock-wave of dead kids by pushing some piece of legislation which would not have made the slightest piece of difference had it been brought into force before the event in question. They are feeding their own egos by tryng to show that they are 'doing something' when, in actual fact, they are doing sod all. They are behaving exactly in the way they claim the NRA are behaving. On balance though, at least the President seems to have a modicum of decency about him, unlike the rest pf his party. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 You are getting mixed up; your graph shows causes of death an the US yet the point you responded to was that they were the country with the highest level of gun death in the world. That is not true - other countries, notably Brazil have hugely more firearms deaths and have much, much, much more restrictive laws on gun ownership. It was only a couple of years ago, for instance, that Brazil got very close indeed to banning all firearms ownership and even all gun manufacture even if they were to be exported! Mexico is nearly as bad. In contrast, I belive that Finland has a higher rate of gun ownership than the USA. J. Its not hard to get me mixed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 I am not sure were you are getting your figures from. I will go with the figures from the FBI. FBI. Stats This FBI table 'Homicide' and 'Murder' are not the same though. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 FBI stats are murder only, the Suicide rate is the biggest component of gun deaths. Says far more about the provision of mental health facilities. More Americans kill themselves every year with a gun than by others. Try page 5 here: http://www.uphs.upen...9 Section 1.pdf And page 7: http://www.uphs.upen...9 Section 1.pdf Louisiana is the highest and Connecticut one of the lowest.... The thing is though; does the USA have a higher suicide rate than elsewhere? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 It is totally bloody shocking, to be honest. Scumbag, ambulance-chasing Democrats seeking votes on the shock-wave of dead kids by pushing some piece of legislation which would not have made the slightest piece of difference had it been brought into force before the event in question. They are feeding their own egos by tryng to show that they are 'doing something' when, in actual fact, they are doing sod all. They are behaving exactly in the way they claim the NRA are behaving. On balance though, at least the President seems to have a modicum of decency about him, unlike the rest pf his party. J. Like Labour did? In contrast, I belive that Finland has a higher rate of gun ownership than the USA. J. http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf On these 2007 figures not true although very high for finland. Brazil however is very low. The issue is some numbers are estimates some include military weapons (Switzerland) and none accurately reflect the numbers of illegally held firearms. The thing is though; does the USA have a higher suicide rate than elsewhere? J. With firearms or in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 All the checks and assessments in the UK did not stop this happening. The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree that occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others. So what makes you think it would make any difference if the same checks were applied in America. read the quote again mate i said WE ALL HAVE LESSONS TO LEARN EVEN THE UK we do not have perfect 100% gunlaws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Scholl Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Any army base will have more armed sentries than even the largest university or school campus will ever have armed rent-a-cops, the "all the weapons were in the armoury" is just voodoo, as the shooter here took a number of rounds and is now paralysed. Sorry mate, but what's your point with the Wiki link? WRONG!! The only American military personnel allowed to carry weapons on US military bases on American soil are MP's. You can thank Clinton for that. Most of the MP's are stationed at the base entrance, which is why the shooting went on as long as it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Any army base will have more armed sentries than even the largest university or school campus will ever have armed rent-a-cops, the "all the weapons were in the armoury" is just voodoo, as the shooter here took a number of rounds and is now paralysed. Sorry mate, but what's your point with the Wiki link? Yes but sentries, by definition, are on the perimiter. Once you have managed to get past that perimter you can kill as many people as you like until such time as someone else turns up to stop you. That may be one of the sentries who is probably several hundred yards away or someone who runs to the armoury several hundred yards away but it always someone was several hundred yards away. I have yet to hear of ayone trying to perpetrate a mass shooting at a police station, gunshop, shooting range, etc, let alone being successful at it. Every single mass-shooting has been perpetrated in places where the shooter could be sure of not meeting immediate resistance. Years ago fast food restaurants used to be targets (Lubys) now they aren't since concealed carry laws were reformed. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 , the american gun laws are outdated and need bringing into the 21st century. there laws on people been able to be armed for protection blah blah blah comes from the original congress that was written when there where cowboys and Indians, The right to bare arms in American congress actually comes from the English constitution of rights. I watched a programme a while ago called 'Tim shaw on guns'. They had a history buff on there and he had the original bill where English people could own a gun for self protection. They just nicked it off us. Just thought I'd add my 2 pence worth. ATB 425 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 read the quote again mate i said WE ALL HAVE LESSONS TO LEARN EVEN THE UK we do not have perfect 100% gunlaws The logic of that is that the gun laws in the UK are not strict enough. What are 100% perfect gun laws. What lesson do you think the UK has to learn as regards gun laws.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock & Barrel Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Yes but sentries, by definition, are on the perimiter. Once you have managed to get past that perimter you can kill as many people as you like until such time as someone else turns up to stop you. That may be one of the sentries who is probably several hundred yards away or someone who runs to the armoury several hundred yards away but it always someone was several hundred yards away. I have yet to hear of ayone trying to perpetrate a mass shooting at a police station, gunshop, shooting range, etc, let alone being successful at it. Every single mass-shooting has been perpetrated in places where the shooter could be sure of not meeting immediate resistance. Years ago fast food restaurants used to be targets (Lubys) now they aren't since concealed carry laws were reformed. J. By definition, mass shootings can and do happen randomly - so by your model the US would have to become a completely militarised society (indeed more so than it already is), just on the off-chance that they didn't get a predictably metronomic visit from the next tooled-up loon having a bad hair day. Your plans are both unworkable and unpragmatic - and they'd lead to more deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) NO ONE WILL WIN THIS DEBATE OR GET A CONCLUSION TO IT, WE CAN DEBATE FOREVER weather you have a 410 for rats or 6 shotguns and 4 rifles they are all killing machines, no one could foresee this, the only resolution is scrap every gun in the world and this would never happen.. 1 life or 20 everyone life is too much,, i wont post after this as people are just wanting a cheap argument ordnonce been one . mine and my family's heartfelt feelings to all concerned.. Edited December 18, 2012 by delburt0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikingRebel Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 How many times did you have to shoot a burglar? How many times were you burgled? Do you have a fire extinguisher in your house? If so, why? How many times did you have to put out a fire? How many times has your house caught fire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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