Vipa Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Sorry if this is a repost.... Now... I really don't like Piers Morgan and irrespective of your stance on US gun controls, I think, as a Brit, he has a damned cheek to try and stick his nose in a completely different culture and try to tell them how to run their country... A bit like a Bricklayer reading the financial times for a week and then coming into my office and start telling me how I should run a Mortgage and Financial Services company (nothing against Brickies BTW.. just the first thing that popped into my head!) but this guy is a complete tool! and apparently he has the ear of over 150 million Americans!!!!!!!! Piers Morgan could have basically let him rant for 12 minutes and then looked at the camera and uttered... "I rest my case!'" Unbelievable! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyKofFih8Y&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf-i3Y5iRYo&feature=player_embedded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Piers Morgan could have basically let him rant for 12 minutes and then looked at the camera and uttered... "I rest my case!'" Unbelievable! I totally agree with this. Alex Jones is an utter loon of the highest order and I fail to understand as to why anyone who claims to have an IQ over 50 would want to associate themselves with him. To be honest, he's probably not as big a nutter as he tries to suggest and is most probably running a big act to generate a lot of money and noteriety for Alex Jones, in the same fashion as the great fake, sweaty liar, Michael Moore. If he had any actual respect for the Second Amendment, or any of the other tings he claims to believe in, then he'd at least try to refrain from being such a total bell-end all the time! It's somewhat depressing that Piers Morgan didn't have to go to any great lengths to find someone even more annoying and offensive them him self to go on his show. That's the USA for you though! J. Edited January 8, 2013 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Piers Morgans opinions are not out of line with many in the US - just not the loons like this Alex Jones. I think the US does need a small degree of change with regards to their gun laws. Certainly not an outright ban or anything close to what you have in the UK, but they need some change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Yes it is a re-post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Piers Morgans opinions are not out of line with many in the US - just not the loons like this Alex Jones. I think the US does need a small degree of change with regards to their gun laws. Certainly not an outright ban or anything close to what you have in the UK, but they need some change. The problem is one you go down that route you end up where we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 But is where we are such a bad place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 The problem is one you go down that route you end up where we are. Possibly - but unfortunately there is a certain element in the US who think they are Rambo, Terminator, and George Washington all rolled into one. I don't think the guns themselves are an issue in the US - but the gun culture of some of these loons leaves something to be desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 It's also being discussed on BBC radio 2 now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 But is where we are such a bad place? I know opinions differ, but personally - I don't think so. I have lived in the US (albeit a long long time ago), and also in South Africa. In the US when you are approached by a police officer - say for a traffic violation - his first assumption is that you are armed, and will approach the vehicle with that assumption - hand on holster. Granted, this may vary from city to city and state to state - but it was my experience. You are taught as a driver, to stay in your vehicle and keep your hands on your steering wheel when approached by a police officer pulling you over (certainly they did in California where I was). In South Africa when you are pulled over - more often than not (and depending on the circumstances), the hand isn't on the holster, the gun is out. With good reason - they have one of the highest police mortality rates in the world, and loads and loads of legal and illegal guns in circulation. In the UK - you are highly unlikely to even see a gun on a policeman. Only place i've seen them is at the airport. When pulled over, you may get a stern word, but certainly no assumption you are dangerous or armed. The 'Policing by Consent' in the UK is something you should cherish. It all boils down to what kind of society you want to live in. The Americans have a choice now. I don't see them banning guns - but they certainly do need some tougher licensing laws. This idea that they need weapons to fight a tyrannical government is a load of BS. The entire Iraqi army could not withstand the US army - how is Joe Sixpack and his AR15 going to? King George isn't going to come and take his colony back. I don't know if you had seen this story: http://www.tubefilter.com/2013/01/08/fps-russia-keith-ratliff-murder/ He was one of the partners in the hugely popular FPS Russia series on YouTube. My only comment was - if only he had a gun to defend himself! D'oh... It will be interesting to see how things transpire there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikingRebel Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 But is where we are such a bad place? Its just about tollerable, but i still think a great deal our gun laws are totally unneccessary and do absolutely nothing for public safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I know opinions differ, but personally - I don't think so. I have lived in the US (albeit a long long time ago), and also in South Africa. In the US when you are approached by a police officer - say for a traffic violation - his first assumption is that you are armed, and will approach the vehicle with that assumption - hand on holster. Granted, this may vary from city to city and state to state - but it was my experience. You are taught as a driver, to stay in your vehicle and keep your hands on your steering wheel when approached by a police officer pulling you over (certainly they did in California where I was). In South Africa when you are pulled over - more often than not (and depending on the circumstances), the hand isn't on the holster, the gun is out. With good reason - they have one of the highest police mortality rates in the world, and loads and loads of legal and illegal guns in circulation. In the UK - you are highly unlikely to even see a gun on a policeman. Only place i've seen them is at the airport. When pulled over, you may get a stern word, but certainly no assumption you are dangerous or armed. The 'Policing by Consent' in the UK is something you should cherish. It all boils down to what kind of society you want to live in. The Americans have a choice now. I don't see them banning guns - but they certainly do need some tougher licensing laws. This idea that they need weapons to fight a tyrannical government is a load of BS. The entire Iraqi army could not withstand the US army - how is Joe Sixpack and his AR15 going to? King George isn't going to come and take his colony back. I don't know if you had seen this story: http://www.tubefilte...ratliff-murder/ He was one of the partners in the hugely popular FPS Russia series on YouTube. My only comment was - if only he had a gun to defend himself! D'oh... It will be interesting to see how things transpire there. I agree with what you say in general BUT.. your analogy with Iraq is slightly blinkered... even the might of the US military would be unlikely to prevail against an armed malitia of over 400 million! I'm pretty sure Saddam and his armies fell slightly short of that number! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I agree with what you say in general BUT.. your analogy with Iraq is slightly blinkered... even the might of the US military would be unlikely to prevail against an armed malitia of over 400 million! I'm pretty sure Saddam and his armies fell slightly short of that number! Current population is more like 300m - and of the ones who are not seniors or children - say 100m? Try to get 100m Americans to agree on overthrowing the government - HA. But I see your point - even though the likelihood of that happing is sub-zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridges Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 THAT MAN BE CRAZY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 But is where we are such a bad place? Yes It costs me a fortune to keep up my hobby of pistol shooting, as it entails travelling overseas. I cant own a semi auto full bore for hunting. and even after jumping through all manner of hoops to own the guns I have the anti still want to take away the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I know opinions differ, but personally - I don't think so. I have lived in the US (albeit a long long time ago), and also in South Africa. In the US when you are approached by a police officer - say for a traffic violation - his first assumption is that you are armed, and will approach the vehicle with that assumption - hand on holster. Granted, this may vary from city to city and state to state - but it was my experience. You are taught as a driver, to stay in your vehicle and keep your hands on your steering wheel when approached by a police officer pulling you over (certainly they did in California where I was). In South Africa when you are pulled over - more often than not (and depending on the circumstances), the hand isn't on the holster, the gun is out. With good reason - they have one of the highest police mortality rates in the world, and loads and loads of legal and illegal guns in circulation. In the UK - you are highly unlikely to even see a gun on a policeman. Only place i've seen them is at the airport. When pulled over, you may get a stern word, but certainly no assumption you are dangerous or armed. The 'Policing by Consent' in the UK is something you should cherish. It all boils down to what kind of society you want to live in. The Americans have a choice now. I don't see them banning guns - but they certainly do need some tougher licensing laws. This idea that they need weapons to fight a tyrannical government is a load of BS. The entire Iraqi army could not withstand the US army - how is Joe Sixpack and his AR15 going to? King George isn't going to come and take his colony back. I don't know if you had seen this story: http://www.tubefilte...ratliff-murder/ He was one of the partners in the hugely popular FPS Russia series on YouTube. My only comment was - if only he had a gun to defend himself! D'oh... It will be interesting to see how things transpire there. You need to read more history. The 2nd ammendment was put in their by some very wise people, countries and empires continulay lurch from succcees to failure and democracy to dictatorship. This modern freedom and democracy we have is nothing new, we did not invent it. Democracys always fail because of finances and then a dictator takes over, usually not a benign one. The most famously quoted example is Germany and Hitler and the social climate now is very much what it was like in Germany then. Bad blood between countires, a poor economic situation and loads of debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Its just about tollerable, but i still think a great deal our gun laws are totally unneccessary and do absolutely nothing for public safety. Most of them are unneccessary. The only way to stop gun massacres with legal held guns and murders with legaly held guns is to ban all legal gun ownership. There has not been a murder with a legally held fullbore rifle or pistol since they were both banned, it works. But do we really want to curtail everones freedom for such a low number of lives, there are plenty of other freedoms which we could curtail 1st which woild save infinatley more lives. Try alcohol, smoking or cars, after all we have only really been a car owning nation for 50 years we survived for thousands of years without cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 You need to read more history. The 2nd ammendment was put in their by some very wise people, countries and empires continulay lurch from succcees to failure and democracy to dictatorship. This modern freedom and democracy we have is nothing new, we did not invent it. Democracys always fail because of finances and then a dictator takes over, usually not a benign one. The most famously quoted example is Germany and Hitler and the social climate now is very much what it was like in Germany then. Bad blood between countires, a poor economic situation and loads of debt. I grew up in the US and was educated there - so I'm well versed in the constitution and bill of rights ("government" was a mandatory high school subject) :-) There is much debate on the interpretation of the 2nd amendment - but regardless if that, nobody is suggesting a full ban on guns in the US - that would be impossible. They do need more controls on who owns them, how they are stored and secured, and how hey are licensed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I grew up in the US and was educated there - so I'm well versed in the constitution and bill of rights ("government" was a mandatory high school subject) :-) There is much debate on the interpretation of the 2nd amendment - but regardless if that, nobody is suggesting a full ban on guns in the US - that would be impossible. They do need more controls on who owns them, how they are stored and secured, and how hey are licensed. I was commenting on your knowlege of the 2nd ammendment, I was commenting on why it was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiffy Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 well that was an entertaining 15 minutes, i know naff all about piers morgan and even less about the other guy but i must say he piers showed great self restraint against that looney.... its a wonder he didnt ask for a gun himself to shoot the idiot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Scholl Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Let me clear something up: Alex Jones is a total nutjob. I believe he runs the conspiracy theory website Infowars. Of course Morgan would bring him on his show to make all gun advocates look like whacked out extremists. He makes a few good points, but when he starts going off about 9/11 conspiracy theories, I was screaming at him to shut up. The media is trying to do anything it can to garner up support for Obama and his new gun control agenda. That being said, the chances of any new gun control getting passed are pretty much zero. There's a small chance something might make it through the Senate, but even if it does, it'll be very watered down. When it gets to the House, it'll die before even getting to the floor for a vote, let alone passed. Boehner will make sure of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogone Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Sad that so many loons want to appear on TV defending guns. Most end up looking like the ones we should have guns for defence from. The best pro gun response I have sen is from a marine who was calm and collected and piers couldn't get a rise out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20965618 Mr Biden, leading the White House effort on gun control policy, said the president could use executive orders. Congress might not be needed. Sure they won't do anything radical using executive orders - but i don't see how any reasonable person could argue that the status quo whereby you can bypass a background check by buying at a gun show is really sane legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) This should put the numbers into context http://www.huffingto..._b_1209967.html I think they are heading for a big problem, economy going down, gun sales going up. Doesn't take much working out how that will end http://rochesterhomepage.net/fulltext?nxd_id=364192 Edited January 10, 2013 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) You need to read more history. The 2nd ammendment was put in their by some very wise people, countries and empires continulay lurch from succcees to failure and democracy to dictatorship. This modern freedom and democracy we have is nothing new, we did not invent it. Democracys always fail because of finances and then a dictator takes over, usually not a benign one. The most famously quoted example is Germany and Hitler and the social climate now is very much what it was like in Germany then. Bad blood between countires, a poor economic situation and loads of debt. The 'issue' if that is the correct term is that people seem to think such things impossible in the western civilised world of the 21st century. Whilst it is more unlikely (particularly whilst Team America - World Police is there to protect freedom and democracy) it is not impossible.. Throughout history civilisations have come and gone and if one looks closely, one will see that democracy is not the normal status quo of the cycle.. democracies are but brief periods that separate th anarchical periods from th dictatorships... so it goes: Anarchy - this is usually ended as a tyranical dictatorship brings order to the chaos... then - Dictatorship - Usually ended as a popular uprising overthrows the dictator and a democracy (usually quite brief) ensues... then - Democracy - usually ended by a popular uprising brings a period of anarchy and lawlessnss.. then - Anarchy... etc.. etc... And so it continues... The only diffrence we have now is a. hi technology and comms meaning it would be VERY difficult for a potential aggressor to build a militia big enough to overthrow a gov't or start a war without anyone noticing (ala Hitler) and b. there has probably been a shift where the most long lived part of the cycle will be democracy but it still remains part of a cycle.. What we do have now, and I am absolutely convinced that it poses a much greatr threat to civilisation than nuclear aspirations, oil or financial crisies, is..... social media.... which has the potential to destroy western civilisation! Edited January 10, 2013 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.