Gordon R Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 The point I'm making is that remaining on clinically prepared heroin is often better than the alternative. So, staying on clinically prepared heroin is better than coming off the drug. Just how does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Jonathan - It is a point you make badly. You did shift the emphasis. gordon and jonathan are on form tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 So, staying on clinically prepared heroin is better than coming off the drug. Just how does that work? It goes to keeping the revenues out of the hands of criminals I guess. And if they are on it, can't get off it and want it then it has to be better than getting it from criminals or robbing to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I understand the crack, meth, cocaine and very hard drugs cause HUGE issues that at some point effect all of our lives, even something as small as a smack head dragging his feet up to u outside a shopping centre ands asking for money. We are all effected to some point. I like to think that I am always straight down the middle of arguments but I must say (and this may open me up to some keyboard warriors) but not all drugs make u end up like that poor/scummy/low life/ innocent (whatever you would call him) man in that video. My older brother collects breitling watches, where's nice suites, has a VERY nice car and travels to London every day to work, yet of an evening sits in his boxers and smokes weed watching the footy, he's also highly intelligent. And I can't see his 15 years of joint smoking leading to crack use lol just thought I'd put it out there that there's drugs.....then there's DRUGS. Il return to simply viewing your debates! as i said it shocks me everyone thinks all drug users are unemployed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexl Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 as i said it shocks me everyone thinks all drug users are unemployed and that all drugs are the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeceknight Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Why can't we all just get along, free love, think of the glass half full! Some good music was .......il re-type that, some of the best music was written on drugs! Glass half full! The above comment would generally be viewed as banter please do not verbally attack me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Mungler - therein lies my problem. I find it hard to accept that they can't get off it. It might be hard, they may not want to, but I fear we would be providing them with a free incentive to stay on drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 gordon and jonathan are on form tonight One of us is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 personally i think people should get proper punishment for any crimes they commit on drugs or to get drugs not for being a drug addict, if you got a job earn the cash and want to spend it on drugs that's up to you as long as your not committing crimes to pay for it, then it should not be a concern of mine or anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 So, staying on clinically prepared heroin is better than coming off the drug. Just how does that work? Many people can't come off it. The alternative is non-clinically prepared heroin. I didn't say that being on heroin was preferable to not being on it. In fact, I specifically made the point that it wasn't in post 166. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Jonathan - you make so many points - badly - that I find it difficult keeping track of all your nonsense. I would like some facts to go with your assertion that many can't come off the drug. I seems like yet another of your sweeping generalisations, unless you know all of the users or you are their GP. GP, Lawyer - where will it all end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Mungler - therein lies my problem. I find it hard to accept that they can't get off it. It might be hard, they may not want to, but I fear we would be providing them with a free incentive to stay on drugs. That's why it's called addiction though. Most addicts probably do want to stop. I can see the objection people might have to giving people free drugs. If it provides net benefits though then why not do it? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Any chance of some facts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 god dont bring facts into this argument that will ruin everything An interesting point, if it was all legal and you could pick it up off the shelf why wouldnt you? - because we arnt stupid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Jonathan - you make so many points - badly - that I find it difficult keeping track of all your nonsense. No, you just seem to have difficulty keeping track of most things, by the souns of it. I would like some facts to go with your assertion that many can't come off the drug. I seems like yet another of your sweeping generalisations, unless you know all of the users or you are their GP. You are familliar with the definition of "addiction", I assume? The fact that many people use it until it kills them yet seek treatment during that time tends to suggest that many people can't come off it. GP, Lawyer - where will it all end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 facts mate is something this thread is unlikely to have much off , this was always going to end in bitch slaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Any chance of some facts? What facts do you want? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Jonathan - any chance of some facts? Perhaps you could define "many" for starters. PS - when you are busy writing in red, just a little attention to your spelling might not go amiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 oh no thats it someone mentioned spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 You are right - it was probably a cheap shot. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) you boys should get a room all these tiffs will get people talking Edited July 1, 2013 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Jonathan - any chance of some facts? Perhaps you could define "many" for starters. PS - when you are busy writing in red, just a little attention to your spelling might not go amiss. Seriously, you want me to give you a definition of a common English word? Google it if you don't know what it means. http://www.nta.nhs.uk/uploads/statisticalrelease201112.pdf "Out of the 366,217 clients that have been in contact with the structured treatment system over the last seven years, almost a third (29%), have completed treatment overcoming their dependency and not returning at all during this time." Less than a third success rate for people contacting the NHS for drug addiction treatment demonstrates that many people cannot come off it. These were clearly people who wanted to or they wouldn't have contacted the NHS for treatment. This, of course, doesn't incude those who have relapsed and didn't return to seek treatment or those who relapsed and couldn't return due to death getting in the way. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 How about a half way house? Help to get off drugs for the users and the death penalty for the pushers alongside a slash and burn foreign policy for where its grown? Jobs all round and will keep this forum going for years...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Jonathan I know what the word means, but seriously question whether you do. I have wasted enough of my life reading your "authoritative" posts. I don't know whether you are not very bright or just pompous - perhaps both. My last post on the subject. Feel free to respond in the knowledge that I won't, if it makes you feel more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) your move jonny well that was mildly entertaining time for bed said Zebedee, Edited July 1, 2013 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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