Lee Deluxe 3-Die Set 22 Hornet

[ThePestControllers]

Hi Guys

i am looking at buying one of the

Lee Deluxe 3-Die Set 22 Hornet

die sets to use with this

 

Lee Reloader Single Stage Press

would you also buy the factory crimp tool or not bother or do you

need to buy it because the neck is opened up slightly with the neck sizing tool.

Cheers

Daz

 

[Underdog]

You should not really need the factory crimp for 22H but I thought the Lee three die sets had them any way!

 

U.

[Underdog]

The neck sizer sizes it just right to grip a bullet just enough!

 

U.

[aister]

I found that the crimp die helped with accuracy in both my .223 and the hornet.

[nicholiath]

I also find a LIGHT crimp with the lee factory crimp with die improves consistency with my hornet reloads

[ThePestControllers]

Thank you guys

i had read somewhere that the crimp improved accuracy but was not sure if it was used in conjunction with the neck sizer.

but it is nice to here that in your experience it does improve accuracy.

you cant beet real life feedback.

i think i will order the set and the crimp then.

Cheers

Daz

[rem708]

If your bullets do not have a cannelure (crimping ring) then you should not. The only time one should consider crimping is in automatic weapons of something with a magazine and violent recoil. It is also common on straight walled pistol cartridges in semi automatic or magnum.

 

Crimping causes premature failure of cases with neck splitting. Just because they come with some die sets does not mean you should use!

 

Neck tension is all you need to give a reliable and consistent release of the bullet.

 

If in doubt speak to a bench rest shooter!

Edited July 15, 2013 by rem708

[wymberley]

Mix and match is better for the 22 Hornet, for me anyway. Lee Collet (neck size) die. For the thin walled neck, a bench rest seating (I use Forster) die which ensures that the bullet and case share common axis. A body (I use Redding) die for when you have to bump it back to size. The advantage being that it doesn't interfere with the neck and it can be adjusted to size for your chamber.

 

Edit: Forgot. Depends what you're doing - I shoot live quarry and may well reload the same cartridge in the chamber several times before I fire it. I may have dropped it. It might have rattled around in my pocket. For the field shooter, with or without a cannelure on the bullet, a Lee factory crimp sensibly applied does improve accuracy but possibly more importantly can prevent inaccuracy.

Edited July 15, 2013 by wymberley

[ThePestControllers]

thank you very much for your input and advice i will take it all on board.

i have ordered the

lee press

lee deluxe 3 die set

rcbs universal priming tool

primer pocket cleaner

rcbs pro powder measure

rcbs 505 scales

[fieldwanderer]

Never heard of a body only die but you've set me wondering now;

 

I'm told, and it really makes sense, that once the brass has been fired and formed itself to the chamber; it's more accurate if neck sized only (so the process isn't repeated each time and a variable is therefore removed. When would you need to "bump it back to size"? Is it something that needs to be done after a few firings or just if you wanted to use the brass in another gun (same cal. Obviously)?

[wymberley]

Never heard of a body only die but you've set me wondering now;

 

I'm told, and it really makes sense, that once the brass has been fired and formed itself to the chamber; it's more accurate if neck sized only (so the process isn't repeated each time and a variable is therefore removed. When would you need to "bump it back to size"? Is it something that needs to be done after a few firings or just if you wanted to use the brass in another gun (same cal. Obviously)?

I won't debate whether or not a fire formed round is more accurate than an unfired one.

 

The one other advantage is that it comfortably holds more powder which is handy in enabling the Hornet to reach its true potential. After several reloads - impossible to define as it's individually based on each owner/rifle/case/load/etc - it will become more difficult to close the bolt as the case stretches. The case will 'work harden' so by reducing the forces to which you subject it, it will last longer. The forces applied by neck sizing and body sizing when required are far less than a full length resize (FLS) on each reload. I have noted that my full length resizer is far more brutal in the neck area thean the collet die - if you use the FLS die and then the collet, it requires a degree of effort to operate the press.

 

I have used the body die on cases fired in another gun but one was mine and the other my mate's so my experience is limited.

[Bewsher500]

Lee die sets have two kinds of seating die

 

Lee deluxe die sets have the dead length seating die with floating seater pin - these don';t have a built in crimp in the die (get a factory crimp die to go with turning it into a 4 die set, FL, Collet Neck, Dead Length and Factory Crimp...much better option IMO)

 

Lee 3 die sets with normal seating dies have a crimp function

i personally don't like the design of these as they rely on the case being pushed in to force the neck lip into the bullet

this can push the neck back into the shoulder slightly if done too heavy handed especially on thinner CF cases like the hornet

 

The factory crimp die pushes the case and the collet it is in into the crimp former. much better design, more controllable and consistent (requires cases of same length to be consistent though)

[kent]

Many say crimping helps on the Hornet, I have yet to try it personally I use LE Wilson bench rest hand dies in an arbour press. Light neck bushing and straight line seating to perfection. Concentricity is key to good Hornet accuracy, crimps are one way of getting this - IF ITS DONE CORRECTLY

[ThePestControllers]

the last set of 50 used cases i used i neck sized only but i found that most of the bullets seated correctly with very little distortion of the case but 4 of them the bullet just fell out.

for some reason they would not neck size down to match the others.

would this be an annealing problem as in do they need annealing to soften them.

i have initially sorted this problem out by full sizing them but the full size hand die in my opinion makes the neck to tight distorting the neck quite a lot when the bullet is seated is this normal.

cheers

Daz

[Amazed]

the last set of 50 used cases i used i neck sized only but i found that most of the bullets seated correctly with very little distortion of the case but 4 of them the bullet just fell out.

for some reason they would not neck size down to match the others.

would this be an annealing problem as in do they need annealing to soften them.

i have initially sorted this problem out by full sizing them but the full size hand die in my opinion makes the neck to tight distorting the neck quite a lot when the bullet is seated is this normal.

cheers

Daz

Your collet die may need a clean and polish a bit of grease on the workings will make things slide. If you are using a bench press you need to set it properly or it won't squeeze the case. Practise with some duff cases.

 

I wouldn't full size the hornet it just hammers the brass with no benefits.

If you get swelling on the body of the case making chambering difficult get a body only die.

But to be be honest the brass is that cheap you may as well just bit it if this happens.

[ThePestControllers]

i have 100 privvi cases new that i just full sized because they were new i hope this is correct.

and i have 200 more privvi cases being delivered today.

the other 50 used cases were hornady shop bought rounds that have previously been reloaded by a former owner.

so once they are fire formed in my gun i presume i only need to neck size them from then on.

i have loaded 50 rounds yesterday from 12g to 12.8g still cant fit 13g in to test the gun and find what powder weight is best in my gun.

 

Cheers

Daz

[kent]

the last set of 50 used cases i used i neck sized only but i found that most of the bullets seated correctly with very little distortion of the case but 4 of them the bullet just fell out.

for some reason they would not neck size down to match the others.

would this be an annealing problem as in do they need annealing to soften them.

i have initially sorted this problem out by full sizing them but the full size hand die in my opinion makes the neck to tight distorting the neck quite a lot when the bullet is seated is this normal.

cheers

Daz

 

The brass being thin does tend to loose its spring, this is another reason some crimp. Its well known that hot primers will unsettle the bullet before the powder has chance to fully burn in the hornet. Personally I only just give the neck "just enough" to grip the bullet via a bushing and yes after multiple firings I do get odd necks slackening and did need to tighten up 2 tho' over the normal bushing calc when I started. I have yet to full length size any hornet brass IMO its a waste of time unless you have a slack chamber

[kent]

i have 100 privvi cases new that i just full sized because they were new i hope this is correct.

and i have 200 more privvi cases being delivered today.

the other 50 used cases were hornady shop bought rounds that have previously been reloaded by a former owner.

so once they are fire formed in my gun i presume i only need to neck size them from then on.

i have loaded 50 rounds yesterday from 12g to 12.8g still cant fit 13g in to test the gun and find what powder weight is best in my gun.

 

Cheers

Daz

 

Don't fret over the 13 grn its meaningless regards velocity. Also precise powder fill is of dubious benefit in this case, concentrate on construction of the loaded round instead. Well sorted brass of equal firings with consistant rim thickness and again - THEY MUST BE STAIGHT so check them on a DTI your looking for no more than 2 tho

[ThePestControllers]

morning Kent

i suppose what i should do is run them through my gun to check them to see if they need full resizing first then is that correct.

 

do new neck crimping dies need any treatment to bed them in.the lee deluxe set was lubricated when they arrived.

[kent]

morning Kent

i suppose what i should do is run them through my gun to check them to see if they need full resizing first then is that correct.

 

do new neck crimping dies need any treatment to bed them in.the lee deluxe set was lubricated when they arrived.

Firstly I don't crimp myself, many rate it and I can see why. All dies should be cleaned before use of any preservative type oils etc. If your running a tight chambered gun like a CZ I doubt your brass will ever need a FLS unless you use brass fired in someone elses gun previously. The hornet headspaces on the rim not the shoulder as is the case with a modern bottle necked case, bottle necked cases will at some time need FLS or you wont close the bolt as the shoulder moves forwards gradualy. Hence you don't set back the shoulder as the rim is were the headspace is

[wymberley]

 

The brass being thin does tend to loose its spring,

!?

[ThePestControllers]

i am using a CZ

sorry i meant to say neck sizing die not neck crimping die

[kent]

!?

Do you not get that?

[wymberley]

Do you not get that?

Nope.

 

Why do people anneal their cases when deemed necessary? Your statement would indicate that this is to replace their spring which they've lost.

 

If it was a simple quick job of bending metal, I could normalise it before working it but if it was going to be somewhat complicated, you'd anneal it, normalising when finished. This was to render the material malleable so that it stayed in exactly the same shape that you made it. Just like a case, the last thing you want is it springing back. It is not any inherent spring in the case material that grips the bullet but just the fit probably classed as transition.

[kent]

Nope.

 

Why do people anneal their cases when deemed necessary? Your statement would indicate that this is to replace their spring which they've lost.

 

If it was a simple quick job of bending metal, I could normalise it before working it but if it was going to be somewhat complicated, you'd anneal it, normalising when finished. This was to render the material malleable so that it stayed in exactly the same shape that you made it. Just like a case, the last thing you want is it springing back. It is not any inherent spring in the case material that grips the bullet but just the fit probably classed as transition.

blooming heck wyberley, that's a lot of words to describe spring (or metal memory). I don't anneal myself preferring to use the sign as over work and time to change to brass. Hornet brass is so small and thin I have some doubt about annealing it perfectly without investing a lot of cash into the kit- hence I am prepared to buy more brass instead