Steel Shot, Wildfowling

[Beretta686]

What's your favourite Steel loads?

Mine are:

 

Super Steel 32g 4's

Mammoth 36g 1's

Lightning steel 36g 1's and 3's

Mammoth 42g 1's

Winchester drylok 44g 1's

[strangford wildfowler]

Those lightning steel are lethal out of a full and half choked barrels for geese.

[Beretta686]

Yeah sure are, the 36g 3's are a great duck load, very punchy!

[Monkey Nuts]

Anyone tried the Bornaghi 36g 1's ? Going duck & geese shooting in a couple of months and its about all I can find in steel for a 2 3/4 (70mm) chamber.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Monkey Nuts

[kent]

Anyone tried the Bornaghi 36g 1's ? Going duck & geese shooting in a couple of months and its about all I can find in steel for a 2 3/4 (70mm) chamber.

Just be mind full which 2 3/4" chambered gun you put them through. Most suitable (pre-steel) guns should carry a 3" chamber in a magnum format, firing a 2 3/4" HP shell in a std 3" chamber is much better at handling pressure. These are a known hot shell, I use them in a no.4 at times and I shouldn't put them into any of my own 2 3/4" guns.

 

If its a one off why not just lash out on a few Bismouth ? Or pack a more suited gun ?

[kent]

Factory wise.

Gamebore mammoth 3" no 3 36grm (duck)

Remmington Nitro steel 3" 1 1/4 oz no.2 American (large duck at range)

Remmington Nitro steel 3 1/2" 12ga or 10ga both in BBB (goose)

 

 

I have a stock of maybe half a dozen other types, that I use but these I can fully recommend.

[Monkey Nuts]

Just be mind full which 2 3/4" chambered gun you put them through. Most suitable (pre-steel) guns should carry a 3" chamber in a magnum format, firing a 2 3/4" HP shell in a std 3" chamber is much better at handling pressure. These are a known hot shell, I use them in a no.4 at times and I shouldn't put them into any of my own 2 3/4" guns.If its a one off why not just lash out on a few Bismouth ? Or pack a more suited gun ?

Kent,

 

They would be going through an Beretta A303 semi auto. Only gun I will have available at the time. For the amount we are likely to be shooting, Bismouth would get a bit expensive!

[RossEM]

Just be mind full which 2 3/4" chambered gun you put them through. Most suitable (pre-steel) guns should carry a 3" chamber in a magnum format, firing a 2 3/4" HP shell in a std 3" chamber is much better at handling pressure. These are a known hot shell, I use them in a no.4 at times and I shouldn't put them into any of my own 2 3/4" guns.

 

If its a one off why not just lash out on a few Bismouth ? Or pack a more suited gun ?

 

Also check what pressure your gun is proofed for. If the cartridges are over 1200 BAR then you would need to put them through a gun proofed to 1600 BAR.

 

This is often forgotten, but cartridges such as Victory Mini Magnum & Winchester Super Speed are actually 2 3/4" Magnum loads, which should not be fired through any old gun!

 

The below cartridges in shot size 4 are fine to use in any 12 bore gun with steel (not damascus) barrels, 2 3/4" chambers & up to half choke - I know because I've used them extensively:

 

http://www.lyalvaleexpress.com/steel-game-32-grams

 

http://www.gamebore.com/products/33/12g-game-wetland-steel

[RossEM]

I think the confusion arises with 'High Performance' 2 3/4" steel loads - these should be done away with IMO

[Big Mat]

 

Also check what pressure your gun is proofed for. If the cartridges are over 1200 BAR then you would need to put them through a gun proofed to 1600 BAR.

 

This is often forgotten, but cartridges such as Victory Mini Magnum & Winchester Super Speed are actually 2 3/4" Magnum loads, which should not be fired through any old gun!

 

The below cartridges in shot size 4 are fine to use in any 12 bore gun with steel (not damascus) barrels, 2 3/4" chambers & up to half choke - I know because I've used them extensively:

 

http://www.lyalvaleexpress.com/steel-game-32-grams

 

http://www.gamebore.com/products/33/12g-game-wetland-steel

What cartridges really need a gun proofed to 1600? HP steel and stuff like heavy shot all say a gun proofed to 1370 bar, which is the proof level that is stamped on steel proof guns.

 

Personally i'd fire all hp steel through a gun proofed for 1200 bar, i know i'm not alone in doing it. The gun can take it, its just when it was made we didnt have the 1370 bar proof stamp...

[scolopax]

so long as you have a cartridge within a suitable range of load and pellet size do not get too hung up on brands, speeds pressures etc etc. Just concentrate on pointing the gun in the right direction. All factory ammo will do the job.

[Monkey Nuts]

Always assumed I would need 1's for geese? Otherwise the Gamebore super steel would be an option?

 

P.s sorry for the thread hijack!!

Edited August 26, 2013 by Monkey Nuts

[Big Mat]

Always assumed I would need 1's for geese? Otherwise the GamBore super steel would be an option?

 

P.s sorry for the thread hijack!!

1s or BBs would be my choice.

[RossEM]

What cartridges really need a gun proofed to 1600? HP steel and stuff like heavy shot all say a gun proofed to 1370 bar, which is the proof level that is stamped on steel proof guns.

 

Personally i'd fire all hp steel through a gun proofed for 1200 bar, i know i'm not alone in doing it. The gun can take it, its just when it was made we didnt have the 1370 bar proof stamp...

 

Big Mat, every lead load on the market over 32g is only safe to shoot in a 2 3/4" 1600 BAR proofed gun: Eley Alphamax, Victory Mini Magnum, Winchester Super Speed - I know these aren't steel, so these aren't totally relevant, but there may be standard steel loads on the market which produce over the 1200 BAR of pressure which is the safe limit in a normal 2 3/4" chambered gun. It pays to be careful anyway.

OP only mentioned he had a 2 3/4" chambered gun - this does not necessarily mean the gun is proofed for those heavy loads (which were known as the 2 3/4" magnum) and it definitely means the gun is not proofed for HP steel! HP steel can only be used in guns proofed for High Performance steel shot (tested for wall strength - the two critical areas being the forcing cone and the choke) hence my suggestion of two standard steel loads. It's always worth a check, better than having your gun blow up...if, like you say, you're firing cartridges that produce 1370 BAR of pressure through a gun proofed only for 1200 BAR, you're lucky your gun hasn't blown up. The proof house don't just stamp a random number on the barrels, they test the gun to what it can handle!

[RossEM]

Always assumed I would need 1's for geese? Otherwise the Gamebore super steel would be an option?

 

P.s sorry for the thread hijack!!

Monkey Nuts, if you have a gun with non-steel proofed barrels (i.e. no Fleur De Lys symbol mark on the barrels), you are only safe to use 'standard' steel loads, with a shot size no bigger than 4. Your barrels also must be half choke or less. That's what CIP, The Proof House and all cartridge manufacturers recommend. So, Gamebore Super Steel in size 4 are ok, if your barrels are no tighter than half choke. Confusing ain't it!

[Big Mat]

 

Big Mat, every lead load on the market over 32g is only safe to shoot in a 2 3/4" 1600 BAR proofed gun: Eley Alphamax, Victory Mini Magnum, Winchester Super Speed - I know these aren't steel, so these aren't totally relevant, but there may be standard steel loads on the market which produce over the 1200 BAR of pressure which is the safe limit in a normal 2 3/4" chambered gun. It pays to be careful anyway.

OP only mentioned he had a 2 3/4" chambered gun - this does not necessarily mean the gun is proofed for those heavy loads (which were known as the 2 3/4" magnum) and it definitely means the gun is not proofed for HP steel! HP steel can only be used in guns proofed for High Performance steel shot (tested for wall strength - the two critical areas being the forcing cone and the choke) hence my suggestion of two standard steel loads. It's always worth a check, better than having your gun blow up...if, like you say, you're firing cartridges that produce 1370 BAR of pressure through a gun proofed only for 1200 BAR, you're lucky your gun hasn't blown up. The proof house don't just stamp a random number on the barrels, they test the gun to what it can handle!

Why are the guns not proofed to 1600bar then? I had in my cabinet earlier this year a fairly new Remington 11-87, proofed to 1370bar and stamped with the fleur de lys. Are you really saying that i wouldnt have been able to fire lead loads over 32grams in it?

[kent]

Kent,

 

They would be going through an Beretta A303 semi auto. Only gun I will have available at the time. For the amount we are likely to be shooting, Bismouth would get a bit expensive!

Personally if its a sound gun made before the steel proof pressure existed I should use it BUT ITS AT YOUR RISK and provided the gun is perfectly sound, I did use one of these a while.

[Monkey Nuts]

Thanks chaps, I appreciate on my head be it!

[RossEM]

Why are the guns not proofed to 1600bar then? I had in my cabinet earlier this year a fairly new Remington 11-87, proofed to 1370bar and stamped with the fleur de lys. Are you really saying that i wouldnt have been able to fire lead loads over 32grams in it?

 

I'm saying you should always check the guidelines on the cartridge box.

If your gun is proofed for 1370 BAR and you bought some heavy load lead cartridges which produce a higher pressure, it wouldn't be safe to use them. Victory Mini Magnum would be the prime example.

 

When it comes to steel shot, If your 11-87 has the fleur de lys symbol then it is proofed for high performance steel cartridges. If it has a 3" Magnum chamber I doubt you could buy a steel cartridge that would be unsafe to use. However, I believe Eley Lightning Steel have been withdrawn as the pressures they create exceed the proof limit for the majority of steel proofed guns.

 

The problem would arise, which Monkey Nuts might be about to see, if you were to put steel 3's (or bigger) in a gun which was not proofed for steel.These cartridges are the 'high performance' ones. Steel 4 shot is the limit for standard non-steel proofed barrels (you still need to have half choke or less to use them safely.)

 

So, if you had an older 11-87, or indeed a Beretta A303 which wasn't steel proofed, it would be unsafe to use High Performance steel (i.e. shot size bigger than 4) cartridges. But standard steel (size 4 or smaller) would be safe to use with half choke or less.

 

It's up to you, it's your gun and your safety. I know I wouldn't use a cartridge my gun wasn't proofed for!

[motty]

 

I'm saying you should always check the guidelines on the cartridge box.

If your gun is proofed for 1370 BAR and you bought some heavy load lead cartridges which produce a higher pressure, it wouldn't be safe to use them. Victory Mini Magnum would be the prime example.

 

When it comes to steel shot, If your 11-87 has the fleur de lys symbol then it is proofed for high performance steel cartridges. If it has a 3" Magnum chamber I doubt you could buy a steel cartridge that would be unsafe to use. However, I believe Eley Lightning Steel have been withdrawn as the pressures they create exceed the proof limit for the majority of steel proofed guns.

 

The problem would arise, which Monkey Nuts might be about to see, if you were to put steel 3's (or bigger) in a gun which was not proofed for steel.These cartridges are the 'high performance' ones. Steel 4 shot is the limit for standard non-steel proofed barrels (you still need to have half choke or less to use them safely.)

 

So, if you had an older 11-87, or indeed a Beretta A303 which wasn't steel proofed, it would be unsafe to use High Performance steel (i.e. shot size bigger than 4) cartridges. But standard steel (size 4 or smaller) would be safe to use with half choke or less.

 

It's up to you, it's your gun and your safety. I know I wouldn't use a cartridge my gun wasn't proofed for!

The Eley Lightning steel haven't been withdrawn. They had a powder metering problem which could have meant the loads were over pressure. The loads were recalled as a safety precaution. I've heard that all was ok with them. I've not heard of anyone having a problem with them last season.

 

I'm fairly sure you can use steel 4's through a full choke, no problem.

[RossEM]

I stand corrected...however I would check about using steel through tighter than half choke if I were you. I've been told by every gunsmith I know that half choke is the maximum.

[kent]

I have been studying the question of choke recently, apparently not all grades of choke are of equal constriction. Many after market Full for steel have been launched and these are not as much restriction as full for lead. I read that when the whole no-more than half thing came out it was based only on assumption of possibles (not to say safe or unsafe). As modified / half normally patterns steel tighter than an equal load of lead through full I have never seen the point in risking it tighter than 1/2. This tighter than full and slacker than full tolerance thing has been around a while though.

Regardless at what or when a gun passed proof, it cannot be taken as safe unless it is in good condition. I have just been shooting a 1500fps 1 1/2 oz 10ga steel load through a gun that left the proof house circa 1980, no such thing as steel proof back then especially for a ten.

All barrels can be damaged by steel shot as there is no steel produced that can resist scoring if a pellet escapes the protection of the wad as it passes up the barrel faster than the speed of sound by some margin

[motty]

I stand corrected...however I would check about using steel through tighter than half choke if I were you. I've been told by every gunsmith I know that half choke is the maximum.

I'm pretty sure it's only recommended to shoot no bigger than 4mm steel through more than half choke.

[RossEM]

I've asked David BASC to pin a BASC Steel shot information chart on the Wildfowling section, this should clear things up. I'd always err on the side of caution and follow guidelines from CIP etc etc, that's just me.

[kent]

I've asked David BASC to pin a BASC Steel shot information chart on the Wildfowling section, this should clear things up. I'd always err on the side of caution and follow guidelines from CIP etc etc, that's just me.

 

some of the stuff published and recommended goes back to the 80's. New steel loads can be created with todays components and powders that exceed recommendations in many regards (especially speed) yet produce lower chamber pressures.