Rspb & NE

[Barls2-9-12]

How can we compete against organisations like these. I fear that by the time i have kids and they are my age they won't be able to wonder out on the marsh as it will be a thing of the past.

 

Do our current organisations do enought for wildfowling. Or is it, as shooting community we just think of our selves and not bother

 

is basc doing the right things for our sport.

 

There is no way we can compete against these organisations as we don't support each other like they do. We have so much infighting within our sport which is a shame in my opinion.

 

I know this has been mentioned so many times in the past.

 

Is there anything we can do to help preserver our wonderful sport.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Barls2-9-12

[mudpatten]

Why do you think that BASC is not doing enough for the sport?

 

What else would you like them to do?

 

What infighting are you referring to?

 

My wildfowling club is a tenant of the RSPB with whom we get on very well, and I recently gave a presentation to all the southern area, a line from the Wash to the Bristol Channel, representatives from NE about wildfowling and I did not detect a hostile agenda from them at all. True, there are some fundamental areas surrounding `fowling which they, NE, currently misunderstand, but BASC are working hard to resolve them, with some considerable success.

 

There are a number of land purchase options open to wildfowlers and the distinct possibility that this subject might be moving up the agenda for BASC.

[Pole Star]

Sadly its all politics & money making, Basc dose a good job lobbying perhaps but could they not be doing more securing marsh for its members to go wildfowling on ? the RSPB wont be happy until they have every last bit of good marsh in the UK . .

Edited September 14, 2013 by Pole Star

[Terry P]

The only way to ensure we have fowling for the future is to buy as much land as we can. It is years to late but it would seem BASC are finally waking upto it.

[Pole Star]

Why do you think that BASC is not doing enough for the sport?

 

What else would you like them to do?

 

What infighting are you referring to?

 

My wildfowling club is a tenant of the RSPB with whom we get on very well, and I recently gave a presentation to all the southern area, a line from the Wash to the Bristol Channel, representatives from NE about wildfowling and I did not detect a hostile agenda from them at all. True, there are some fundamental areas surrounding `fowling which they, NE, currently misunderstand, but BASC are working hard to resolve them, with some considerable success.

 

There are a number of land purchase options open to wildfowlers and the distinct possibility that this subject might be moving up the agenda for BASC.

 

Interesting point muddpattern but do all clubs get along with the RSPB ?

[Barls2-9-12]

Now that there are several diffrent breakaway shooting organisations with basc being the main organisation with the most members. But having all these individual organisations it makes out voice smaller. if for instance there was one main organisation such as basc and the others were affiliated to basc. The total members would be much higher and enable us to compete with say for instance the rspb.

 

The only problem I can see with the land purchase ( which I am in favour of) is that say for instance BASC buy a stretch of estuary where ever in the uk. And it has been shot by a club but couldn't afford to purchase it. Do they rent it back to them or do they rent it to another club further away who are willing to pay more for it.

 

This kind of scenario has happened with other clubs buying land away from there home ground and already caused issues within the wildfowling community. I'm all for clubs and basc buying land as it will be there for future generations to shoot on.

 

The point you put about your club regarding the rspb sounds very promising to me.

 

But other clubs have not had so much success as yourselves. Referring to a couple of years ago when there was a ban on in Scotland and not in the uk a due to weather. A club on the south coast were forced to stop shooting as the rspb were managing the shooting lease and deemed it not fit to shoot but the rest of England still could shoot.

 

I understand your point on the fact Basc are moving more towards land purchase which I think is a good thing. I suppose we just have to give it time with the new CEO.

 

At the end of the day rspb don't want wildfowling or any other shooting to carried out.

[mudpatten]

Personally I don`t agree with the argument about having one single organisation. It is the quality of the argument which will win the day, not simply the volume with which it is presented.

 

Many of the break away organisations have actually broken away from BASC under circumstances which have more to do with ego and subsequent employment than fundamental differences in policy. If the break aways were to reconsider their position, we`d have the single voice that we had before they chose to leave. The other issue with regard to this point is that there are frequently other, and different, perspectives on any given topic. With a single voice, and when split opinion is very evident,how does one decide exactly what the company standpoint should be?

 

You really need to research exactly what happened with regard to the purchase of wildfowling land in other areas by "outside" wildfowling clubs. Your standpoint arises from a misconception.

 

The only club in the south, rather than south east or south west which is an RSPB tenant is mine. It has happened in the past that we have stopped shooting when the rest of the UK has not. However, that was OUR decision and not the RSPB`s. Which only goes to show how things can get twisted in the telling. The last time a ban was in the offing we were left to decide wether we wished to show "additional restraint". Due to the circumstance,a thaw had set in, we elected not to. There was complete agreement over this.

 

I can`t speak for the RSPB but I don`t believe, for a number of reasons, that the RSPB wan`t to see `fowling stopped on a national basis.

 

Wether it always continues on land they own is down to a number of factors. One thing is certain, to safeguard the future of the sport, WE need to be purchasing suitable land.

 

And the politics behind that is a whole other story. And here`s an example of that. I`m a lifelong and fanatical wildfowler and would happily put my hand in my pocket through, say, a BASC subscription land purchase levy to buy wildfowling land. However, mention this concept to a dyed in the wool gameshooter and watch him throw his teddy straight out of the pram!

 

Fun and games lie ahead!

[Barls2-9-12]

I am not saying that there should just be one organisation. I am just saying that if there was a particular organisation which we were all affiliated to then it would give us a bigger total of members within the shooting world. No matter what the topic would be.

 

With regard to the misconception of the land purchased by clubs out of there local location. I was referring to ongoing issues within the club I am a member of which is not a misconception.

 

I understand and agree with point about pheasant brigade using there money to buy land for wildfowling. Your point about a subscription for land purchase would make sense. And could possible solve the issues with Basc members who do not wish to participate in wildfowling. As there money would not be going into land purchase for wildfowling.

[Big Mat]

You say about us all being affiliated with one organisation. I know alot of clubs are affiliated with basc, do you know of clubs that are not? As i thought it was a given that all clubs are with basc

[Barls2-9-12]

Sorry I was not meaning clubs such as wildfowling clubs I was meaning organisations such as NGO etc.

[Impax]

Petition Governments.....Every body/Club/Assoc. buy land & marshes where possible, promote our sport in an ethical way.......and yes stop all the inter club and/or local political infighting......and yes sadly I do believe our sport has a limited time in our 'modern' life.........and that's me being positive!

[Impax]

and can I add......our worse enemy may well prove to be ourselves......I mean our own district fowling authorities/clubs/assoc..... Sadly modern fowling history has proven time and again we are not all team players......we collectivley do not think of the long term together, ........unlike our cousins across the atlantic.......remember gentlemen BASC while doing an sterling job for 10% or so of it's membership does have conflicts of conviction if only the budget spent........BASC does not provide Fowling here in the UK, our local Clubs do.....BASC only regulate it!... .....Ducks Unlimited in the USA have taken a different view and I can guess who will be the last countryman to take a shot at a wild duck or goose.

[Barls2-9-12]

and can I add......our worse enemy may well prove to be ourselves......I mean our own district fowling authorities/clubs/assoc..... Sadly modern fowling history has proven time and again we are not all team players......we collectivley do not think of the long term together, ........unlike our cousins across the atlantic.......remember gentlemen BASC while doing an sterling job for 10% or so of it's membership does have conflicts of conviction if only the budget spent........BASC does not provide Fowling here in the UK, our local Clubs do.....BASC only regulate it!... .....Ducks Unlimited in the USA have taken a different view and I can guess who will be the last countryman to take a shot at a wild duck or goose.

 

Really great point I think

[mudpatten]

I agree wholeheartedly!

 

We, wildfowlers, are our own worst enemy.

 

We are also, in the main, lazy, selfish and politically disconnected.

 

BASC is a democratic organisation and, as such, is rife for a completely lawful takeover by the wildfowling community who can then direct the direction it subseqenrly takes.

 

At the last BASC Council election a wildfowling candidate of vast experience who was acceptable to the majority of `fowlers barely scraped home.

 

I don`t have the figures to hand but he polled less than 2,000 votes. There are generally accepted to be about 10,000 `fowlers.

 

This means that some 8,000 gunners COULD NOT EVEN BE BOTHERED TO VOTE.

 

With a degree of apathy like that it is plain to see that the main threat to the future of `fowling is not NE, not Consent issues,not the RSPB, not non toxic shot. It is none of these.

 

It is our own apathy.

[The Croc]

Nick, is that 10,000 Wildfowlers or 2,000 Wildfowlers and 8,000 people that belong to a club and go on the marsh once or twice when they're not Game shooting ?

Brian

[Terry P]

Apathy is an issue, but no where near as much of a threat to our sport as the protectionist bodies. As fowlers we will always be a minority as far as BASC is concerned what we need to start being is a much more vocal minority, we need to vote, we must make the effort when asked to do so. Attend the WLC if you can.

Never ever trust or be complaisant where the rspb etc are concerned.

I would like to see BASC pushing to get brent and barnacle back on the quarry list, even if the chance is very slim it gives the rsps etc something to fight, numbers are up on all species so let them get all defensive and prove why we should not have them, we should be throwing whatever we can into the pot to muddy the waters and get them on the defensive for a change.

[mudpatten]

"As fowlers we will always be in a minority as far as BASC is concerned."

 

Thats partly true but would be irrellevent if there were a significant number, a majority,of wildfowlers on BASC Council.

 

Respectfully, we don`t need to be a vocal minority, that would be pointlessly frustrating. What we need to be is a majority stakeholder on BASC Council. We simply need to get more `fowlers elected. Control of the direction, and finances,of BASC by the wildfowling community is a blindingly simple thing to do, but, Council election after Council election we fail to do it!

 

Terry, undoubtedly protectionist bodies are a significant threat but you say that you would like to see BASC fight for the return of the Brent to the quarry list. That`s a whole can of complicated worms, but what is simple from your example is that, for BASC to take that course of action it`s staff need to be directed so to do by Council. All the while there are not enough fowlers on Council, it won`t happen.

 

And then we`re back to the usual viscious back biting and BASCstabbing with disaffected,vocal, but idiot members who carp on about what BASC "does`nt" do, oblivious to the fact that the solution to the problems as they see them, lies in their own hands, through the Council ballot box.

Edited September 15, 2013 by mudpatten

[Terry P]

Nothing wrong with be vocal if its directed and controlled, I said vocal not ranting, I have voted for the last 2 fowling members of council and always encourage others to vote the same, we have some very experienced fowling members on council and I hope they are already pushing for fowling issues, I feel sure they are.

How many members are on the council and how many are true fowlers, I now of Lee, John and Alan. I have noticed in the elections that very few of the prospective members get a lot of votes. It should in theory be easy to get new fowlers on the committee but it would seem there is a shortage of suitable fowlers putting their hands up. Mid week meeting are not helping I guess.

[snowmonster]

Personally I don't think the midweek meetings would make that much difference, the biggest problem is the structure of the organisation and how the council works. To achieve a takeover as Nic suggests would take years to achieve and dozens of like minded and patient people, even if you could get the wildfowlers voting at every council election you only ever elect 2 or 3 new members who can then only serve a limited number of years before they have to stand down so to take control with wildfowlers only elected is slim to impossible as in the past fowlers on council have been frustrated to the point of resigning I believe or just faded into the none attendance bracket.

[mudpatten]

Like I said, apathy and a defeatist attitude will destroy fowling from within.

 

Snowmonster appears to be beaten before we`ve even started.

 

As the OP said right at the start of this post " Is there anything we can do to help preserve our wonderful sport?"

 

Apparently not.

[snowmonster]

I didn't say that at all Nic , just pointing out the pitfalls in your own observations. The only way to stage a takeover successfully would be a vote of no confidence in the existing council and election of a new council on block, getting people in place in one go as like I said and you well know it's virtually impossible otherwise. This could be done as I well remember being dusted off and let out the cupboard to go to an AGM as a fowler to block such a takeover bid.

[Varminator]

I love this topic and have seen it come up so many times.

 

The only comment I will add is that never ever believe the RSPB are on our side. It's great Nicks club is currently benefiting but the RSPB play the long game.

 

I have watched a club in our region cosy up to the landlord and not go up against him when land came up for sale over the last 20 years as they had cheap shooting from him. End result is they have now lost all of his land as the RSPB put pressure on him to kick the wildfowlers off if he wanted to retain their cheap grazing.

 

They have so many ways and means to stop wildfowling and are achieving their aim by "death by a thousand cuts".

 

Luckily there are some great clubs about driven by some amazingly dedicated individuals and they may just do enough to retain sufficient individuals within the sport to stop us getting allocated in to the same camp as badger baiters, cock fighters and fox hunters.

[kent]

How can we compete against organisations like these. I fear that by the time i have kids and they are my age they won't be able to wonder out on the marsh as it will be a thing of the past.

 

Do our current organisations do enought for wildfowling. Or is it, as shooting community we just think of our selves and not bother

 

is basc doing the right things for our sport.

 

There is no way we can compete against these organisations as we don't support each other like they do. We have so much infighting within our sport which is a shame in my opinion.

 

I know this has been mentioned so many times in the past.

 

Is there anything we can do to help preserver our wonderful sport.

 

 

We shouldn't even try. We must work TOGETHER with them, yesterday I was speaking to an RSPB rep and she said that is what the general hands on working RSPB folk want. This was in relation to the Hen Harriers, waders etc, etc. Said her and many of her colleges were glad to see the back of Avery (who was a big mistake for them). She also was very keen on predator control and balance (even the culling of buzzards on licence if required)

I am in a number of Wildfowling clubs that work closely with NE and we certainly need to embrace them as friends, flash creation and general habitat work ticks a lot of boxes for their targets and costs them nothing. RSPB? well they lease land to some Wildfowling clubs for shooting.

One area that does us no favours is shooters drawing battle lines in the sand, forget most of the shooting press and forget that fool who writes in the Times newspaper, he is only the flip side of are own sporting press.

 

I am often questioned by those with the big spotting scopes about sightings and birding related stuff when walking out with the gun and dog, I cant say any have been anti

[Kes]

"As fowlers we will always be in a minority as far as BASC is concerned."

 

Thats partly true but would be irrellevent if there were a significant number, a majority,of wildfowlers on BASC Council.

 

Respectfully, we don`t need to be a vocal minority, that would be pointlessly frustrating. What we need to be is a majority stakeholder on BASC Council. We simply need to get more `fowlers elected. Control of the direction, and finances,of BASC by the wildfowling community is a blindingly simple thing to do, but, Council election after Council election we fail to do it!

 

Terry, undoubtedly protectionist bodies are a significant threat but you say that you would like to see BASC fight for the return of the Brent to the quarry list. That`s a whole can of complicated worms, but what is simple from your example is that, for BASC to take that course of action it`s staff need to be directed so to do by Council. All the while there are not enough fowlers on Council, it won`t happen.

 

And then we`re back to the usual viscious back biting and BASCstabbing with disaffected,vocal, but idiot members who carp on about what BASC "does`nt" do, oblivious to the fact that the solution to the problems as they see them, lies in their own hands, through the Council ballot box.

We talked a while back but nice to see your (and other wildfowlers) true colours - never mind the actual mix of shooting members "BASC is RIPE for takeover" . A fine example of democracy and being one for all and all for one.

[Reabrook]

We talked a while back but nice to see your (and other wildfowlers) true colours - never mind the actual mix of shooting members "BASC is RIPE for takeover" . A fine example of democracy and being one for all and all for one.

 

Here we go again! Same old ****.