v5uk Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) I’m thinking about going to a gun auction in December to get an old English side by side, something pretty with hammers and Damascus barrels. I've not won the lottery so I won’t be spending the equivalent of a second hand Ferrari or a row of terraced houses in a less affluent area of the country. But after watching a few auctions in the past I'm a bit confused. For instance I’ve seen sxs hammer Purdys go through auctions from a grand to sky’s the limit, I understand that the top of the range ones that look like they have never been shot. And I understand matched pairs or guns that come in a box with trade label will be worth a bit more. But what makes 2 similar (not the same but similar) Purdy guns worth different amounts? Other than the blood rushing to the little trouser snake and a few people with the horn for the same gun at auction. Will the auctioneers estimate help people to over bid for instance if they say it’s worth 2K – 3K will people bid it up to around or over this amount? Can anyone shed any light on how not to drastically over pay for a gun Cheers Steve Edited September 19, 2013 by v5uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I think that in the main general gun auctions are no more than clearing rooms for scrap if you want good quality you will have to pay the price.i am sure there are a few good deals to be had but these will be on the bottom end of the market a good quality English shotgun in excellent condition is going to command a price that suits.at auction buyer beware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 When it comes to English side by sides, there is no substitute for experience and that will come from a fairly long history of reading about and looking at gun records for those 'best' London and Birmingham companies. There is no prepacked method of getting up to speed and you can make a bit if you know your onions or lose a lot if you get it wrong. Unless you are prepared just to buy a gun for its looks and hang it on the wall - with appropriate security, you will need someone who will give you their expertise which may be quite variable. To be honest, I bought my old H&H after taking it to a reliable gunmaker and getting his valuation to confirm my own guestimate. This was a private sale so I could take the owner and the gun to the gunsmith. Research and visiting good gunshops like the one in Ledbury will give you a better understanding but to get it right takes time and effort or a friend who knows what you dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Remember they are only in the auctions.because we can not sell them in the shop I was told by an RFD ,be carefull now and again there is a bargin but there is a lot of rubbish Deershooter Edited September 19, 2013 by deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 At any auction, you must look first and evaluate an auction value for yourself. Never run with the bidding and see were it ends up - it is not unknown for the less scrupulous auctioneer to bounce bids off the wall when he sees a keen newcomer bidding like crazy. Think of it as a competition of who can pay the least not the most. Never ever,ever bid on an item you didn't inspect but is going through cheap. Its almost a sure thing it will not turn out into the bargain you thought it was. Remember commissions payable and auction terms and conditions are different at many auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v5uk Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Cheers for the comments so fare I understand exactly what everyone is saying about buyer beware at gun auctions and I would never buy one blind. I bought a old side by side greener dating from 1898 in its case with manufactures sticker inside for £500 plus commission last year. Quite a nice gun and shot lovely but just not what I ideally wanted. I sold that privately for £1200 and I wish I had advertised it for a little more as it sold to quickly so yeah there is some rubbish that gets put through but there are some little gems. As I say I Know at any auction its whose there on the day and how much they have a hardon for it and how much disposable income they have against the next bidder. I just cant get my head round a Purdy selling for 3k and one that looks almost the same (to me anyway) selling for 5 to 8k On the slightly different note I have seen guns that have been part of a matched pair i.e No.1 of 2 or No.2 of 2 being sold possibly coz one guns been damaged or someone needed some extra cash and can only soot one gun at a time. But are detached guns of a pair any good to buy? Or because they have been separated will that drastically alter the individual gun price? Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I’m thinking about going to a gun auction in December to get an old English side by side, something pretty with hammers and Damascus barrels. Can anyone shed any light on how not to drastically over pay for a gun Cheers Steve Wabbitbosher had one that meets your requirements for not too much dosh. I was sorely tempted myself............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v5uk Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Wabbitbosher had one that meets your requirements for not too much dosh. I was sorely tempted myself............... Cheers for that. Any links to the gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 http://www.gunwatch.co.uk/guns/3284-Chas-Weekes-BARGAIN-Damascus-for-sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBS Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Originality and wall thickness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v5uk Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I cant handle 30", 28" max that extra 2" always puts me behind on fast crossing birds / clays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v5uk Posted September 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 On the slightly different note I have seen guns that have been part of a matched pair i.e No.1 of 2 or No.2 of 2 being sold possibly coz one guns been damaged or someone needed some extra cash and can only soot one gun at a time. But are detached guns of a pair any good to buy? Or because they have been separated will that drastically alter the individual gun price? Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonix Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 I have personally seen that side by side that Wabbitbosher has for sale. It is a very pretty gun it has to be said! He's a top bloke too! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 I just cant get my head round a Purdy selling for 3k and one that looks almost the same (to me anyway) selling for 5 to 8k It will likely depend on condition. Bore thicknesses, original or sleeved barrels, scratches on woodwork & bluing and also simply what the owner wants for it (reserve price etc). Remember also that the more prestigious the gun & maker, the more drastically the price will be affected by any perceived imperfections - for example, a scratch on an AYA won't affect the price in percentage terms the same as a Purdey. Add all this into the mix along with the variability of who's keen (or not) in the auction room on the day and you have significant scope for variation on price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Popped into an auction house the other day. Buyers premium of 25% PLUS VAT . And then vat on the hammer price. Outrageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Vector Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 "Popped into an auction house the other day. Buyers premium of 25% PLUS VAT . And then vat on the hammer price." Not quite correct. VAT is not normally payable on the hammer price. You will only pay VAT if your are buying a) Newly manufactured goods (20% VAT, which you will pay wherever you buy from) b) A modern import (20% VAT) c) An antique import (5% VAT) You have to pay VAT on the premium because it's classed a "service". Blame the grabbing ba*$£!d government for the VAT, not the auction house. The commission rates however are set by the auction house. 25% is about the same as the other major auction houses and it is a lot to add on to the hammer price. Still occasionally get some good stuff from auction though. Just need to be very careful. I "popped" into the same auction house as well the other day. Looked at a lot of guns, didn't see one I'd be happy buying (at least in my price range) and "popped" out again! Good stuff at the lower end of the price range is getting scarce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Poon Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 http://www.gunwatch.co.uk/guns/3284-Chas-Weekes-BARGAIN-Damascus-for-sale That's one nice damascus hammer gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 When I inquired, they said it depended if the vendor they were selling for was vat registered or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Vector Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 I've a bought LOT of guns from auction as well as antique furniture and collectibles and have never paid a penny VAT on the hammer price. I'm careful to avoid the imports and new items as I don't intend add more to government coffers than is absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 That's one nice damascus hammer gun That's the one we were looking at 10 posts ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 I've a bought LOT of guns from auction as well as antique furniture and collectibles and have never paid a penny VAT on the hammer price. I'm careful to avoid the imports and new items as I don't intend add more to government coffers than is absolutely necessary. They did say items which were liable for vat were clearly marked as such. Just something you have to be careful of. Still, 25% +VAT is outrageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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