Can I still shoot ???

[Gundogs88]

Any advice before in ring firearms officer

 

The police are holding my shotgun certificate and guns due to a road rage incident and I'm awaiting a court date to see if I can have them back in the mean time can I still shoot with friends under there licence using there shotguns on private land with permission from land owner I've not been told by the court or police that I can't go shooting ?? Also it would be for vermin not at a clay ground any help would be great as my firearms officer is away for two weeks on holiday cheers .

[welsh1]

Just my 10p worth, but i would think that if the police removed your shotgun certificate(revoked) and your shotguns then it was a clear message they did not want you to be using them, and i would think it would be detrimental to any court case if you were shown to have flouted their wishes.

I would wait until after your court case.

[RAMMER BURT]

Just my 10p worth, but i would think that if the police removed your shotgun certificate(revoked) and your shotguns then it was a clear message they did not want you to be using them, and i would think it would be detrimental to any court case if you were shown to have flouted their wishes.

I would wait until after your court case.

+1 for this advice

[kent]

perhaps I might take the opposite view, why waste the big proportion of the season if your innocent? On the other had if its something you should not have done and cannot justify, get used to being gun-less and don't bother

[Gundogs88]

Mmmm ok

[JonathanL]

Any advice before in ring firearms officer

 

The police are holding my shotgun certificate and guns due to a road rage incident and I'm awaiting a court date to see if I can have them back in the mean time can I still shoot with friends under there licence using there shotguns on private land with permission from land owner I've not been told by the court or police that I can't go shooting ?? Also it would be for vermin not at a clay ground any help would be great as my firearms officer is away for two weeks on holiday cheers .

 

You can still shoot under any of the exemptions that are available to anyone else. The only circumstances under which you would not be able to were if you became a prohibited person under the provisions of section 21.

 

J.

Just my 10p worth, but i would think that if the police removed your shotgun certificate(revoked) and your shotguns then it was a clear message they did not want you to be using them, and i would think it would be detrimental to any court case if you were shown to have flouted their wishes.

I would wait until after your court case.

 

He can't use them as he says the police have them. He can still shoot under any of the various exemptions using other people's guns though.

 

Even if his cert had been revoked he could still shoot under the various exemptions.

 

J.

Edited October 24, 2013 by JonathanL

[welsh1]

 

You can still shoot under any of the exemptions that are available to anyone else. The only circumstances under which you would not be able to were if you became a prohibited person under the provisions of section 21.

 

J.

 

He can't use them as he says the police have them. He can still shoot under any of the various exemptions using other people's guns though.

 

Even if his cert had been revoked he could still shoot under the various exemptions.

 

J.

Having been a person who had his firearms and shotguns removed,but not had my tickets revoked while a malicious accusation was made against me,i think i am well placed to give advice as it was told to me by my FEO, his advice was that i should tow the line while the investigation was ongoing as to go shooting when they had sent a clear warning by removing my weapons was to basically stick two fingers up,and it would look unfavourable should anything else happen.

 

While technically you are correct J in the real world sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

[JonathanL]

Having been a person who had his firearms and shotguns removed,but not had my tickets revoked while a malicious accusation was made against me,i think i am well placed to give advice as it was told to me by my FEO, his advice was that i should tow the line while the investigation was ongoing as to go shooting when they had sent a clear warning by removing my weapons was to basically stick two fingers up,and it would look unfavourable should anything else happen.

 

While technically you are correct J in the real world sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

 

Don't necessarily disagree. The question was a direct one though; "can I still shoot?". Answer; "Yes". If the question were; "Should I still shoot?".....

 

J.

[welsh1]

 

Don't necessarily disagree. The question was a direct one though; "can I still shoot?". Answer; "Yes". If the question were; "Should I still shoot?".....

 

J.

Think you will find he started his thread with "any advice"

[Yorkshire Wildfowler]

you can shoot on land in the presence of the owner / occupier of the shooting rights using there shotgun all so you can shoot on clay grounds that have a exemption certificate ...

 

If you have got a mate you can trust get all your shotguns signed over to him or to a registered RFD to get them out of the BLOODY coppers hands

[JonathanL]

Think you will find he started his thread with "any advice"

 

He asks quite clearly;

 

"...I'm awaiting a court date to see if I can have them back in the mean time can I still shoot with friends..."

 

The answer is, yes he can. At no point did he ask whether it was best that he didn't.

 

J.

[welsh1]

 

He asks quite clearly;

 

"...I'm awaiting a court date to see if I can have them back in the mean time can I still shoot with friends..."

 

The answer is, yes he can. At no point did he ask whether it was best that he didn't.

 

J.

Oh j j j go read the post and then tell me that my statement was incorrect.

 

 

 

Think you will find he started his thread with "any advice"

[spinach]

I guess it depends if you want to fight to get your licence back and only you know what went on !

I also think that your mate should know the situation before going out with him.

John.

Oh and yes I think you can .

Edited October 24, 2013 by spinach

[David BASC]

As I understand it this chap has not been revoked, his has simply had his guns and certificate removed while the police investigate the incident. So he is still a licence holder, although without a licence he cant but ammo of course.

 

Even if he was revoked but no custodial sentence applied, then he is not a prohibited person, so yes he can go shooting, although without a certificate it would be advisable to use the occupiers gun on the occupiers land in the presence of the occupier as said.

 

Turning back to the situation in hand, you may wish to ask for an interview with the senior officer in charge of licencing to discuss the matter, plead your case, say sorry and it wont happen again, this is much cheaper than waiting to get revoked and then looking at an appeal (£2-5,000).

 

If you are a member of BASC drop me a PM with your membership number and I will have a chat with our firearms team for you, please send as much information about the circumstances as possible, including any letters from the police and or a copy of the interview (I assume they have interviewed you?)

 

David

[welsh1]

As I understand it this chap has not been revoked, his has simply had his guns and certificate removed while the police investigate the incident. So he is still a licence holder, although without a licence he cant but ammo of course.

 

Even if he was revoked but no custodial sentence applied, then he is not a prohibited person, so yes he can go shooting, although without a certificate it would be advisable to use the occupiers gun on the occupiers land in the presence of the occupier as said.

 

Turning back to the situation in hand, you may wish to ask for an interview with the senior officer in charge of licencing to discuss the matter, plead your case, say sorry and it wont happen again, this is much cheaper than waiting to get revoked and then looking at an appeal (£2-5,000).

 

If you are a member of BASC drop me a PM with your membership number and I will have a chat with our firearms team for you, please send as much information about the circumstances as possible, including any letters from the police and or a copy of the interview (I assume they have interviewed you?)

 

David

Good luck with asking the senior officer to have a chat,it will be procedure from now on and you will have an investigation done and most probably be interviewed,David i am disappointed that you give advice like that as you more than most should know the procedure.

 

And to the op,good luck with contacting BASC i am a member,and had the most water tight case there was(full video footage) when i spoke to BASC they were not that helpful, didn't even offer to speak to my firearms dept,all they offered was a tel no of a solicitor based in the midlands over 200 miles away from me,i felt isolated and let down by the very poor service that i was offered(or not) .BASC have said there is little they will be able to do in situations like this,and if they do pull out all the stops for the op i would ask the question why the op and not myself?

[HDAV]

Any advice before in ring firearms officer

 

The police are holding my shotgun certificate and guns due to a road rage incident and I'm awaiting a court date to see if I can have them back in the mean time can I still shoot with friends under there licence using there shotguns on private land with permission from land owner I've not been told by the court or police that I can't go shooting ?? Also it would be for vermin not at a clay ground any help would be great as my firearms officer is away for two weeks on holiday cheers .

 

You haven't had a revocation (letter???), and are not a prohibited person.............. I dont think the taking of the bit of paper actually makes any difference.... (hope you have a good shooting organisation backing you)

[David BASC]

Dear Welsh,

 

None of the guidance I gave was incorrect. Further, we have found that many forces will offer an interview before further action and a final decision is made. There is no harm in asking is there?

 

At what point did you speak to a firearms officers at BASC? What we are able to advise is based on the evidence we are given, remember we have several ex police officers on staff who know how the system works, and their guidance on what we could and should do in such cases is invaluable. Typically our advice to contact a solicitor is when the situation has gone to the point where criminal proceedings are most likely or where revocation has already taken place or is very likely to take place. We only give out details of solicitors that we know are expert in firearms cases, there are not that many around. You may wish to elaborate via PM if you wish.

 

I am here to try and help all members as I have said before, and I cant promise to overturn a decision if the police revoke due to 'intemperate habits' for example, or if they feel the person is no longer fit, but we are trying hard to increase the level of customer service.

 

David

Edited October 24, 2013 by David BASC

[welsh1]

Dear Welsh,

 

None of the guidance I gave was incorrect. Further, we have found that many forces will offer an interview before further action and a final decision is made. There is no harm in asking is there?

 

At what point did you speak to a firearms officers at BASC? What we are able to advise is based on the evidence we are given, remember we have several ex police officers on staff who know how the system works, and their guidance on what we could and should do in such cases is invaluable. Typically our advice to contact a solicitor is when the situation has gone to the point where criminal proceedings are most likely or where revocation has already taken place or is very likely to take place. We only give out details of solicitors that we know are expert in firearms cases, there are not that many around. You may wish to elaborate via PM if you wish.

 

I am here to try and help all members as I have said before, and I cant promise to overturn a decision if the police revoke due to 'intemperate habits' for example, or if they feel the person is no longer fit, but we are trying hard to increase the level of customer service.

 

David

We have had this conversation in the past in other threads,BASC were lacking in all departments when i needed them,the only thing i was offered was the telephone number mentioned,and no i was not a criminal case,and revocation was not on the cards,it seems to me that you are not completely up on the procedure of weapons being removed and what goes on after they have been,the op has an accusation of violence levelled against them, and the police are not going to be having tea and chats with anyone, but will follow procedure and interview the op and look at all the evidence and then make their decision,it took 4 months for mine to make that decision even though i had video footage showing me to be totally innocent and two police officers had lied.

 

I gave your staff all the details in great depth and also repeatedly told them i had the video evidence to back up what i was saying was the truth,but as said BASC was totally lacking to this member when i most needed the support and help of his association.

[David BASC]

As I said, we have had a lot of success recently when guns have been seized gaining an interview with the senior officer to discuss with the member. It will come as no surprise perhaps that some forces are much more likely to grant an interview than others. Not withstanding what happened in your case, and I say again in the case of the OP, there is no harm is asking is there?

 

Your case would have been fully reviewed, and if we thought the best course of action would have been to speak to your FEO then that is exactly what we would have done. In this case there was clearly accusation and counter accusation. It had clearly gone beyond simply calling your FEO, hence our guidance that a chat with a specialist firearms solicitor would be your best bet at the time.

 

As I say we are improving our customer service and what we deliver, and as mentioned on another thread are looking at how we can include full legal expenses cover for all members, so we can swing lawyers into action quickly, something that will make the licencing teams think twice and something I suspect would be very welcomed by all members.

 

David

[welsh1]

As I said, we have had a lot of success recently when guns have been seized gaining an interview with the senior officer to discuss with the member. It will come as no surprise perhaps that some forces are much more likely to grant an interview than others. Not withstanding what happened in your case, and I say again in the case of the OP, there is no harm is asking is there?

 

Your case would have been fully reviewed, and if we thought the best course of action would have been to speak to your FEO then that is exactly what we would have done. In this case there was clearly accusation and counter accusation. It had clearly gone beyond simply calling your FEO, hence our guidance that a chat with a specialist firearms solicitor would be your best bet at the time.

 

As I say we are improving our customer service and what we deliver, and as mentioned on another thread are looking at how we can include full legal expenses cover for all members, so we can swing lawyers into action quickly, something that will make the licencing teams think twice and something I suspect would be very welcomed by all members.

 

David

Utter tosh, no one reviewed my case a 10 minute phone conversation was all BASC could be bothered to muster,no offers to speak to anyone,as for accusation and counter accusation,the police lied in an email,i didn't counter accuse i produced 3 hours of a head cam footage with me and the police officers showing the truth,no counter accusation just the truth,everyone that saw the video agreed that the police had lied,including their own force who upheld 3 of my 4 complaints, not so much black and white,more glorious high definition colour with sound,BASC could have viewed the footage, i offered to send it to them but it was declined,and throughout the 4 months i was left to go through the ordeal of 6.5 hours of interviews with my feo and 2.5 hours of interviews with the other forces standards committee.

 

If BASC could have been bothered to help me i firmly believe that with pressure put on my force my weapons would have been returned much earlier.

 

I know you are their media arm David,and i don't hold it against you,but please don't give out that BASC will help all because it is simply not true, the apathetical way i was treated will stay in my memory for a long time,and as seen on previous posts i do not seem to be alone in feeling that the promise made does not seem to live up to the actual help given(not given).

 

My last words on the subject, as said we have recently been through all this before,shame you couldn't remember

[BRNDL]

Have I just wasted 12 months fees with BASC?

 

Reading some threads recently I hope I don't need them.

[David BASC]

Our firearms team are experts in their field, there is nowhere else you can get free access to such depth of knowledge and guidance on firearms issues.

 

All cases are fully assessed by the officer who talks to you, keep in mind they are dealing with this sort of thing day in and day out. Based on their experience of such cases, and keeping in mind the licencing authority involved, they will give you the best possible advice based on the information you give them at that time. It is in our interest, and in the interest of our members to give the best possible advice.

 

As you can imagine, there are many variables in cases, but very broadly the guidance we will give could be broken down into three most likely scenarios:

 

1. We tell you what the legal position is and give you guidance on what you could do next by contacting the licencing team yourself and reporting back to us.

2. With your permission we contact the licencing team by phone and or arrange a meeting with them.

3. If either of the above are not likely to be viable, our guidance will be to brief a solicitor who is a firearms expert.. Once you have made contact with the solicitor they almost invariably get in touch with us for a further brief.

 

A report of the conversation is kept and reviewed by a senior officer and or the head of firearms. If further action is deemed necessary over and above the initial advice we will get back to the member and give further guidance and or take further steps, keeping the member informed.

 

If you have been accused of committing an offence involving violence or if there is accusation of intemperate habit for example the police will almost always take a precautionary approach and its is not uncommon for them to take guns away. What happens next very much depends on the exact circumstances and the evidence. Some police authorities will write to you quickly to say what's going on, others may not. If you are unaware of what's going on it does no harm to get in touch with your FEO to find out. Information you receive from the police can be shared with us and we can give you further guidance.

 

The matter is likely to then be subject to a formal police investigation, while this is on-going, it is unlikely that intervention by others would speed up the police investigation, after all the police have a set procedure to go through, although a lawyer may well be able to expedite things, especially if there is doubt over the evidence presented.

 

At the end of their investigation they will typically return your firearms / certificate, or write to say they are minded to revoke and give reasons. If they do write to say revocation is likely then again you can contact us and again we will look to see if there is anything in law that we can do.

 

However, if you have committed a criminal offence and you are convicted or indeed accept a caution then its unlikely we could overturn a revocation.

 

Going back to the OP, the offer of help is still there.

 

David

[welsh1]

I know I said last word, but I see that you have contacted someone to find out what exactly is supposed to happen,now in the real world I will tell you again,BASC were not interested,offered no support apart from a phone number of a solicitor I could ill afford,and were as much use as a chocolate fire guard,and judging by the pm's I recieve I am not alone.

 

Carry on towing the party line "David",if you are an individual I again admire you for obstinately chanting the party line,but to ask me for the second time to pm you the details of my case,when it was only a few months ago we had all this out and running for a few pages,makes me wounder if it is the media section booking in under the name of David and not always just David,strange how you forget so quickly.

 

Sometimes the biggest is not the best, and they lose sight of their key objectives,their members.

[evo]

have to say, BASC have been nothing but helpful to me before and after I had dealings with a certain firearms department, cant say too much because it is still on going but one thing I will say is BASC could not have done anymore for me,

 

even to the point of having a BASC representative attend mettings with me,

 

I will certainly keep my subscription going to my end

 

THANKS BASC

 

atb Evo

 

ps with regards the op, yes you can still go shooting mate as I do numerous days a week as long as its within the law

[Gundogs88]

Thanks for all your replies I think it's best I wait to hear from my firearms officer before I do anything.

 

Thanks again Nathan