GP's letter to licensing

[bostonmick]

It would be based on a failure to properly represent members views despite knowing what those views were and failing to fully canvas membership views on the issue to confirm a mandate.

The only way perhaps to raise concern over the issue and get it reconsidered ?

Also a dose of extreme frustration that even this gaping chasm in the abuse of the law cannot be nailed firmly shut.

 

 

as a previous post on here says he was asked to supply a gp note which was refused until the doctor had consulted the gmc,the cost would be in his case 25.00 so if you had to pay 25 or even 30 you would not pay but are prepared to pay many thousands in court costs and barristers fees..

[Scully]

 

if you read back at no time was it ever spoke about or hinted that the doctors report would stop anything.the doctors opinion is sought for that time in the same way as your friend who signs to say you are all good.i will explain one last time my own opinion is tha I and I only speak for myself would if it speeded my renewal I would pay for and supply a gp's letter.another reason for me wanting my sgc done quickly is I travel a lot with my guns and spend a lot of time away from home shooting so a current certificate is preferable to me.does that make it any clearer for you..

Your position regarding this was never unclear. I merely asked how you thought a GP's report would have prevented in the past or would prevent in the future any criminal misuse. You obviously don't want to answer that, which is fair enough. There is a marked difference between a GP's report at cost to the applicant and a sought GP's opinion at no cost to the applicant, and that difference wont guarantee your speedier renewal nor ensure the future of shooting in this country. The cost of a GP's report on top of proposed hiked license costs will be to the detriment of the numbers participating in shooting in this country, and we need all the numbers we can get. Many people could be priced out of shooting.

[Kes]

 

 

as a previous post on here says he was asked to supply a gp note which was refused until the doctor had consulted the gmc,the cost would be in his case 25.00 so if you had to pay 25 or even 30 you would not pay but are prepared to pay many thousands in court costs and barristers fees..

2 things in response, if you and all our organisations are not willing to stand up and prevent such abuses of the system for our weak minority, another step will have been taken with no resistance to it, calm acceptance of injustice emboldens the abuser.

I also happen to believe that standing and complaining is better than being shafted, even if I am the only one and everyone else bends over - doesnt make it right.

Its called principle if you dont stand up for yourself you have none.

[bostonmick]

2 things in response, if you and all our organisations are not willing to stand up and prevent such abuses of the system for our weak minority, another step will have been taken with no resistance to it, calm acceptance of injustice emboldens the abuser.

I also happen to believe that standing and complaining is better than being shafted, even if I am the only one and everyone else bends over - doesnt make it right.

Its called principle if you dont stand up for yourself you have none.

 

 

I wish you luck with your quest.i have better things to spend my money on than lawyers in a futile cause.our organisations have neither the money or the clout to take on court cases of this nature as the majority of shooters are not members.money is power in this crazy world and I am afraid the home office have unlimited supply when it comes to things like this.a little like the inland revenue will spend a million to get the ten pounds you owe them.so again good luck

[HDAV]

 

 

I wish you luck with your quest.i have better things to spend my money on than lawyers in a futile cause.our organisations have neither the money or the clout to take on court cases of this nature as the majority of shooters are not members.money is power in this crazy world and I am afraid the home office have unlimited supply when it comes to things like this.a little like the inland revenue will spend a million to get the ten pounds you owe them.so again good luck

And that's the attitude that saw pistols banned........ It's happened before, you're fine happy to carry on can afford the little extra charges and the hoops for an easy life....... Until your not

[Scully]

 

 

I wish you luck with your quest.i have better things to spend my money on than lawyers in a futile cause.our organisations have neither the money or the clout to take on court cases of this nature as the majority of shooters are not members.money is power in this crazy world and I am afraid the home office have unlimited supply when it comes to things like this.a little like the inland revenue will spend a million to get the ten pounds you owe them.so again good luck.

Our shooting organisations may lack the finances and the clout but they do in fact go to court. Your 'I'm alright jack' attitude is fairly typical of many shooters and is possibly the biggest flaw in the strength of British shooters and shows you're obviously not as concerned about the future of country sports as you claim. We truly get what we deserve. Well done.

[Dekers]

bostonmick

 

Shooters are shafted non stop in this country, I don't think anyone is disputing that, but there are still a few of us who go down fighting rather than simply role over and take it up the ****!

Edited November 20, 2013 by Dekers

[Nikk]

Our shooting organisations may lack the finances and the clout but they do in fact go to court. Your 'I'm alright jack' attitude is fairly typical of many shooters and is possibly the biggest flaw in the strength of British shooters and shows you're obviously not as concerned about the future of country sports as you claim. We truly get what we deserve. Well done.

 

That was what did for fox hunting. When they come for the game shooters the clay shooters wont say anything, then they will get it and last but not least it will be the fishermen.

 

What was that quote? "Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me"

 

All shooters and fieldsports people should be sticking together no matter what.

[Kes]

 

That was what did for fox hunting. When they come for the game shooters the clay shooters wont say anything, then they will get it and last but not least it will be the fishermen.

 

What was that quote? "Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me"

 

All shooters and fieldsports people should be sticking together no matter what.

I agree - it is the only way and we also need our representative organisations to understand the depth of feeling and fight this latest incursion.

[bostonmick]

Our shooting organisations may lack the finances and the clout but they do in fact go to court. Your 'I'm alright jack' attitude is fairly typical of many shooters and is possibly the biggest flaw in the strength of British shooters and shows you're obviously not as concerned about the future of country sports as you claim. We truly get what we deserve. Well done.

You are quite correct in saying our organisations are financially strained and lack clout now I wonder where the fault lay for that.i do not know how many sgc and fac's there are currently on issue but lets just stab at about a million nationwide now lets take the total membership of our two main organisations less than 150 thousand.where are all the committed country sports lovers there then.i have been a member of these for years I also use my vote when they are asking unlike most who use them to pad out the dustbin.i was in london when we marched to try and stop the city boys taking away our sports and in some cases livelihoods it was a marvellous day I can tell you.i also took my truck out of work for a couple of days to blockade coryton oil refinery in protest at fuel rises which in some way gives you the cheaper prices at the pumps today than you might have.i paid for that as I am self employed.it is the shooters of this country that are not in the organisations that are to blame and I would say that you probably know of some.so while you want to lay blame at the feet of those who have acted over the years to try and protect take a good look at some who stand at the shoots complaining then ask what is their membership no.you will in most cases be met with silence.that is the real silent majority.

[JonathanL]

You are quite entitled to deal with your renewal any way you see fit and I would do the same.as one of the earlier posts said they will most likely not renew their basc membership and this is also part of the reason why we will always be on the back foot.we need a strong organisation to fight for us and the only way to have that is in numbers then demand they are seen to be acting in your best interest.by the time I renew the gp letter could well be a requirment so its all academic really.it would be interesting to see how long you would wait for your ticket if you did say no.also as I read it basc say this is not a legal requirment but I have read nowhere that they are acting on it.so in the absence of that kind of protest I doubt the single shooter will fair very well.

 

Almost certainly won't be the case. The HOme Office have only just introduced the new forms and a GP medical report form wasn't among them. The forms haven't been altered in years and years so it seems unlikely that they will be altered again, or that new ones will be added, before you have to renew.

 

If such a form is so important then why weren't they introduced with the new forms? The logical reason is that they aren't needed.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

BASC have asked any members who are faced with this request to inform them immediately.

I note you still haven't explained how a GP's letter would have prevented any of the shooting sprees in the past or how it would prevent any in the future.

It has nothing to do with public safety (the application form already requires your GP's contact consent for this reason) but everything to do with recovering some of their lost costs. I resent paying for their inadequacies. All it takes is for each of us to say that our shooting organisation has advised us not to comply as it is not a requirement by law nor inclusion in the act.

 

It doesn't. It authorises the police to approach your GP to obtain factual details of yoru medical records. It does not authorise them to ask for an opinion, nor does it authorise your GP to give one or to sign off on your suitability.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

 

if you read back at no time was it ever spoke about or hinted that the doctors report would stop anything.the doctors opinion is sought for that time in the same way as your friend who signs to say you are all good.i will explain one last time my own opinion is tha I and I only speak for myself would if it speeded my renewal I would pay for and supply a gp's letter.another reason for me wanting my sgc done quickly is I travel a lot with my guns and spend a lot of time away from home shooting so a current certificate is preferable to me.does that make it any clearer for you..

 

As above; the form does not authorise your doctor to give an opinion on you. It authorises the police to request factual details from your records. The police use that information as part of their decision whether to grant the cert/renewal.

 

J.

can any one stop it,it seems that if the police want any thing we will give it,or it becomes very hard for us,now the yanks would stand for it at all.thats why them get all the good guns.

 

Yes. Don't fill in the additional form.

 

J.

It would be based on a failure to properly represent members views despite knowing what those views were and failing to fully canvas membership views on the issue to confirm a mandate.

The only way perhaps to raise concern over the issue and get it reconsidered ?

Also a dose of extreme frustration that even this gaping chasm in the abuse of the law cannot be nailed firmly shut.

 

That is a total non-starter mate.

 

J.

[bostonmick]

 

That was what did for fox hunting. When they come for the game shooters the clay shooters wont say anything, then they will get it and last but not least it will be the fishermen.

 

What was that quote? "Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me"

 

All shooters and fieldsports people should be sticking together no matter what.

And contained in this statement is another of the reasons why shooting has no power in this country there is no distinction between clay and game shots we are all in fact shooters.you have already created a divide in your own sport by your words.if you wish to seperste the two types of shooting then that's fine i only hope you do not take that attitude into any future campaign for our sport.

[Nikk]

And contained in this statement is another of the reasons why shooting has no power in this country there is no distinction between clay and game shots we are all in fact shooters.you have already created a divide in your own sport by your words.if you wish to seperste the two types of shooting then that's fine i only hope you do not take that attitude into any future campaign for our sport.

 

I think you misread my post. I said exactly that we should stick together regardless of what we like/dislike.

 

P.S I don't concider myself a clay shooter, it doesn't interest me at all but I do go to keep my eye in. However you do find alot of clay shooters are against game shooting. These are my own observations from talking to people and I was surprised because I naturally assumed they were like me.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Nikk

[bostonmick]

 

I think you misread my post. I said exactly that we should stick together regardless of what we like/dislike.

 

P.S I don't concider myself a clay shooter, it doesn't interest me at all but I do go to keep my eye in. However you do find alot of clay shooters are against game shooting. These are my own observations from talking to people and I was surprised because I naturally assumed they were like me.

That's interesting I dont know what part of the country you are in but my county of lincs being one of if not the largest agricultural county most of the clay shots are avid game shooters as well they shoot both with equal passion.it may be that some areas that have a large contingent of shooters from the big towns or cities do not understand game shooting as for them it is as much a fashionable thing to do.i shoot at various grounds around the country and can spot the fad boys you know the ones.all the gear and no idea.i have lived on a farm and years ago when it was manual we ate what we shot from our land at least four or five days of the week.i shoot mainly clay these days as i can control my shooting that way i like to do at least 100 bird when I am out.but i appreciate that others have as much passion for game as i for clay. Be lucky

Edited November 20, 2013 by bostonmick

[Nikk]

South Manchester. i shoot at a place that is really geared up towards competition shooting. They have very good equipment but its one of those places where everyone has got matching Beretta gunslips and shooting jackets etc It's not uncommon to talk to someone and they tell you they don't like the idea of 'blasting pheasants out of the sky'. I also used to be in a rifle club because I thought I'd meet loads of people who are in to fieldsports. Most of them didn't shoot any live quarry and some frowned upon it

 

I sometimes struggle to get the enthusiasm up to shoot clays but my daughter loves the full English breakfast and I am encouraging her to get in to shooting one day as well.

[Kes]

my daughter loves the full English breakfast and I am encouraging her to get in to shooting one day as well.

 

Has to be Cloudside - their breakfast alone is worth a trip !

[Nikk]

I'd go to Cloudside but I was told they don't have much in the way of sporting stands. I'm not really in to Skeet or down the line.

 

I have heard their food is top notch though

 

I generally go to Worsley but it's very busy and does my head in that I have to wait for ages at each stand while groups of 4 or 5 people shoot. They're all nice people and often let me shoot before them but I generally decline...I hate people watching me shoot

[Markr]

had my renewal interview a few days back, the doctor note came up in conversation.

 

I was told "IF" a doctors note is needed due to the applicant being on certain tablets or having a condition that may effect the liscence then it is up to the applicant to get a note from their doctor and pay for it themselves then send it in.

[JonathanL]

had my renewal interview a few days back, the doctor note came up in conversation.

 

I was told "IF" a doctors note is needed due to the applicant being on certain tablets or having a condition that may effect the liscence then it is up to the applicant to get a note from their doctor and pay for it themselves then send it in.

Sorry but, no, it is not. It's the the police making the enquiry and not the applicant. If that were the case then the home office would specify such and would have included a form for it as part of the new official application forms.

 

It is far too easy for this to be used to jack up the costs beyone the fee mandated in law. If it is to become the norm then let it be specified in law which it could easily be.

 

J.

[bostonmick]

Sorry but, no, it is not. It's the the police making the enquiry and not the applicant. If that were the case then the home office would specify such and would have included a form for it as part of the new official application forms.

 

It is far too easy for this to be used to jack up the costs beyone the fee mandated in law. If it is to become the norm then let it be specified in law which it could easily be.

 

J.

 

 

so it is happening more all the time so what do you all think you are going to do about it,what is basc doing what is cpsa doing.if all the people who have said they are going to refuse to supply the information they ask for with no organisation to back you up when you call to ask when you can expect your certificate back and are told we are waiting for the details we asked you for before we can process where do you go from there.lawful or not you are up against the establishment on your own.i am not saying it is right but if it is happening then it is real.

[JonathanL]

 

 

so it is happening more all the time so what do you all think you are going to do about it,what is basc doing what is cpsa doing.if all the people who have said they are going to refuse to supply the information they ask for with no organisation to back you up when you call to ask when you can expect your certificate back and are told we are waiting for the details we asked you for before we can process where do you go from there.lawful or not you are up against the establishment on your own.i am not saying it is right but if it is happening then it is real.

So, just because someone won't do it for you then you capitulate? Excellent plan!

 

Look, I'm not saying that people should fight a fight they can't win but you don't just give up because someone won't do it for you.

 

If the police won't renew your ticket until you have signed their additional form then you complain - oficially and politely in writing. Point out that you have complied with the requirements of the law as regards your application.

 

If that doesn't get you anywhere then you write to the chief constable, then the home office and the IPCC if need be. All the time pointing out that you have complied with the law.

 

The point to make is that what you are being asked to do isn't even anything additional. It is a slight of hand trick to make it look as though it is something extra in order to get you to pay more than the fee mandated in law. The authority you sign allows the police to obtain whatever information they could ever reasonably require for the purposes of granting your certificate. They do not need any additional athority from you.

 

J.

[bostonmick]

we are not talking about someone we are waiting for our organisations to do something other than say don't.as far as I am aware the head of firearms in lincs has retired and all the grants and renews are put to the chief constable to sign off and his attitude is they will get done when they get done.so I doubt writing to him to complain will do any good.the reality of this situation is that we are on our own and must at the moment deal with it in our own way.so roll over or not the choice is yours after all its your certs.

[Scully]

 

It doesn't. It authorises the police to approach your GP to obtain factual details of yoru medical records. It does not authorise them to ask for an opinion, nor does it authorise your GP to give one or to sign off on your suitability.

 

J.

I have never claimed GP's are authorised to give opinions as I know full well they aren't allowed to do so, but must only relate factual details of medical conditions. We all sign our applications giving consent for the Police to approach our GP's if an applicant states a medical condition which they feel could pose a threat either to themselves or the public. If there is no reason to believe this to be the case then GP's are rarely consulted, but Police are increasingly informing an applicants GP that a patient of theirs has either applied for or been granted a licence. Could it be that the Police are trying to 'catch out' any applicants not making full declarations of all relevant medical conditions or simply attempting to put off applicants? The latter is nothing new.

There is an interesting article in this weeks Shooting Times regarding this issue.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Scully