GP's letter to licensing

[Danoi99]

I had an incorrect entry on my medical record. It was proved to be false but the G.P can't remove it, I can attach a note to that record for future reference etc, but it stays on.

 

I says that I saw the Doc and complained of having "Uncontrollable bouts of rage and anger" about 10 years ago. It took me about 7 months to get my SGC.(can't believe I got it anyway), but then I thought it was a necessary for a Doctor to "Approve" your application.

 

My G.P said that a lot of his colleagues were now refusing to sign anything to do with firearms. But then it wouldn't scupper your application..............would it? Again, depends on the Constabulary.

 

I will say that Avon & Somerset were more than helpful when dealing with my case, they went out of their way to get it all sorted out. I was very surprised as I thought they would use any excuse to NOT issue me with a SGC.

[JonathanL]

 

My G.P said that a lot of his colleagues were now refusing to sign anything to do with firearms. But then it wouldn't scupper your application..............would it? Again, depends on the Constabulary.

 

It can't do because there is no requirment in law for your doctor to actually do anything. He can simply ignore the police if he wants to and I reckon that many probably do. The thing you sign on the application form merely says that the police can approach your doctor and ask him about your medical history. I think it's questionable whether that authority even gives permission for your doctor to release any formation. It doesn't say specifically that he can, after all.

 

J.

[bostonmick]

so if a rfd had to have medical checks then any employees he has would have to so now there would be no dealers.also I think you will find that the police can ask for alarms to be installed depends on how many you have and some other factors. after all whats the point in them doing and signing off security for where the guns are to be stored if they cant specify what they want.if we can refuse almost anything they ask as you all seem to be suggesting we should be able to store our guns in the corner of the living room in full view as we used to.but I doubt if many of you remember those days.on the subject of doctors information I spoke to my doctor today about this and he told me that your records hold very little that the average person would be able to understand and in the case of police questions it is an opinion that they give.i was thinking back earlier and its strange how the gun laws of this country were unchanged for decades no need for change but in the last twenty years they have changed all the rules beyond recognition I wonder why.

Edited November 25, 2013 by bostonmick

[bostonmick]

so from your statement anyone who puts a previous medical condition on the form will never get a sgc or fac because if the doctor does not reply then how can a cert be granted in the absence of something to say you are ok from the medical profession.

[HDAV]

 

Hardly instills confidence when G4S were advertising for part time FEO's at around the minimum wage.

Wonder what the "qualifications" requirements for an FEO would be under G4S? I can see them charging for interviews that didn't happen or renewing certificates for deceased persons......

[bostonmick]

they wont do that they are struggling to renew the ones for those that are still alive

[Scully]

I do not understand what you mean what has a rfd (firearms dealer) got to do with this.all this started with regard to the gp information and the cost of getting it.in the spirit of freedom of choice I said I would supply this if it meant faster turnaround.and pay for it.we are supposed to live in a free society but it seems not on pw.i will throw another thing in the mix as this payment thing has been done to death and back when I had my inspection for the house I am in the fao asked that I fitted an alarm to the house not because of the area anyway this I did and today a couple of years later I have had the system upgraded as with all technology it is obsolete before its fitted,anyway how would you all go on if asked to do the same as the alarm has cost me just over 1k and no its not an all singing system and another thing is for insurance purposes is that it is a yearly serviced unit and done by a registered security company.this is a cost to you and they are entitled to request this.

Think I'm done here.....

[bostonmick]

I quite agree

[JonathanL]

so if a rfd had to have medical checks then any employees he has would have to so now there would be no dealers.

 

 

No. That's not what I said at all. Re-read what I wrote.

 

 

also I think you will find that the police can ask for alarms to be installed depends on how many you have and some other factors.

 

 

Yes. As I said, it depends on the facts of the individual case. They cannot simply require it because the feel like it. There has to be a reason for it. If there didn't then they could ask for anything at all knowing full well that the applicant couldn't comply.

 

 

after all whats the point in them doing and signing off security for where the guns are to be stored if they cant specify what they want.

 

 

They cannot simply specify what they want. You can use any method which provides a reasonable level of security.

 

 

if we can refuse almost anything they ask as you all seem to be suggesting we should be able to store our guns in the corner of the living room in full view as we used to.

 

The law requires a certain level or degree of security via the statutory condition appended to your certificate. Clearly just having them standing against the living room wall does not meet that standard. There is no specific form of security prescribed in law and the police cannot insist on one particular form if another meets the standard in law.

 

 

on the subject of doctors information I spoke to my doctor today about this and he told me that your records hold very little that the average person would be able to understand and in the case of police questions it is an opinion that they give.

 

Your doctor should NOT be giving a medical opinion to the police. The authority you sign on the form relates to "factual details" of your medical history and nothing else.

 

J.

 

[JonathanL]

so from your statement anyone who puts a previous medical condition on the form will never get a sgc or fac because if the doctor does not reply then how can a cert be granted in the absence of something to say you are ok from the medical profession.

 

Nope. As I said, you clarly don't understand how the process works.

 

There is no requirement for the doctor to reply or to do anything.

 

J.

[maxus77]

Slightly off topic but One thing I find strange In process of application it renewal is they bank your cash straight away but the interest on that can't be huge but I wonder how much time and money is spent on refunding refused or failed applications ? I'd imagine a refund has to hit a fair few departments to be processed ? Surely processing at point if sign off and allowing to clear would save time and money there ?

[bostonmick]

I think it is best that they bank your cheque at the start as there are a lot of people on tight budgets and with some apps and renews taking up to 6 months you can bet your boots that the cheque would be presented at the wrong time for them therefore causing a problem in the process.i do not know if the police would re present the cheque or just cancel the whole thing and you would have to go back to the start.

[Dekers]

 

 

just to make it clearer (hopefully) I would pay for the doctors fee IF IT MEANT A SPEEDIER RENEWAL,i would pay £200.00 each renewal IF IT MEANT A SPEEDIER RENEWAL

 

 

 

What on earth are you talking about, what is the problem with your renewal time and what grief does that cause you?

 

My region strongly suggest 60 days in advance of expiry, so I apply in a timely manner, and at my last renewal my new FAC/SGC Coterminus actually turned up just over a month early (yeah, I was surprised).

 

Why on earth do I/should I want to pay extra for a speedier renewal?

 

Was the question too complicated, I would be interested to hear your response!

[bostonmick]

I understand that your gp is under no obligation to reply.in the past I have known many drivers who fell ill heart attacks.diabetics etc where the doctors have reported to dvla and that person can no longer drive until the doctor gives an opinion that they are now fit to drive again.so if you put on your app/renew that you had say had a bout of depression but are no longer in treatment.under these conditions would you be the officer that puts his name to the approval with no medical advice.we live in a massive blame culture and everyone will cover their backside as much as they can.

[bostonmick]

it was six months for a straight forward renew.reasons understaffed.pressure of work.so more resources more staff no hold ups a seamless system.another chap on another forum sent in his renew to lincs police months went by and he was getting very close to the date he phoned several times to be told they were waiting for doctors reply and he should request a sect 7 but they would not issue in the absence of gp.unfortunately for him he got ill in the meantime and decided to give up shooting.now he would probably still have stopped shooting but if he had the option of paying for the doctor direct he would have had his cert earlier.we all make choices everyday you know 1st or 2nd class stamp.m&s or aldi white gold at 200 plus a thousand or Olympics 150 a thou.sky tv 50 a month or freeview.i tax my car for twelve months some do six months is that a two tier system and that includes you personal choice.millions of these choices taken everyday by millions of people yet I say I would opt for the choice in my cert and I am wrong.i am off shooting now with my chosen beretta another choice I made is that wrong because it cost more than a Baikal.we live in a free society not old Russia.

Edited November 26, 2013 by bostonmick

[Kes]

I have lost the point of all this. I haven't read so much peripatetic ****** for quite a while.

[dashman1]

Me neither

[Dekers]

Was this meant to be a response to my #188?

 

it was six months for a straight forward renew.reasons understaffed.pressure of work.so more resources more staff no hold ups a seamless system.What fantasy land do you live in, why on earth would paying £200 for a medical report speed anything up another chap on another forum sent in his renew to lincs police months went by and he was getting very close to the date he phoned several times to be told they were waiting for doctors reply and he should request a sect 7 but they would not issue in the absence of gp.unfortunately for him he got ill in the meantime and decided to give up shooting.now he would probably still have stopped shooting but if he had the option of paying for the doctor direct he would have had his cert earlier. Where and why did that leap of assumption come from? we all make choices everyday you know 1st or 2nd class stamp.m&s or aldi white gold at 200 plus a thousand or Olympics 150 a thou.sky tv 50 a month or freeview.i tax my car for twelve months some do six months is that a two tier system and that includes you personal choice.millions of these choices taken everyday by millions of people yet I say I would opt for the choice in my cert and I am wrong.i am off shooting now with my chosen beretta another choice I made is that wrong because it cost more than a Baikal.we live in a free society not old Russia.

 

 

Are you serious, do you really believe paying more will offer efficiency improvements in a 2 tier system. Throwing money at an inefficient Firearms Dept wastes money, it doesn't make it efficient!

[bostonmick]

in the case sited if he had the option of getting the doctors paperwork at the start there would have been no reason for the delay.simple.I feel that anything that is said by anyone will be wrong in your eyes.forums are for differing views.as for putting more money into things to improve them I take it you live and work in the only environment that is perfect and has no room for improvement.it is clear to me that you are of the view that nobody can have an opinion that is not the same as yours so you do your thing and I will do mine and the two will cause no problem to the other.

[Dekers]

in the case sited if he had the option of getting the doctors paperwork at the start there would have been no reason for the delay.simple.I feel that anything that is said by anyone will be wrong in your eyes.forums are for differing views.as for putting more money into things to improve them I take it you live and work in the only environment that is perfect and has no room for improvement.it is clear to me that you are of the view that nobody can have an opinion that is not the same as yours so you do your thing and I will do mine and the two will cause no problem to the other.

 

There is nothing to currently stop anyone getting a doctors report and sending it in with an application should they so desire.

 

You are once again trying to deflect the issue,I said ............... "do you really believe paying more will offer efficiency improvements in a 2 tier system. Throwing money at an inefficient Firearms Dept wastes money, it doesn't make it efficient!"

 

What has that got to do with me or anyone else being able to arrange our affairs efficiently?

 

And if you don't like comment then don't post, you are allowed to promote your views but nobody is allowed to respond if their view doesn't match yours?! To quote your words ... it is clear to me that you are of the view that nobody can have an opinion that is not the same as yours.... so, you are questioned, don't like it and tell me not to respond.

 

If you had an argument it would have come through by now, your answer to problems seems to simply be, I'll roll over, get shafted and pay whatever anyone asks so I'm alright.

 

A somewhat self centred attitude which is not shared by the majority here apparently, that is called debate, but you have chosen to ignore many responses here from numerous people who have taken your argument apart or pointed out the legal position to you!!

 

You come across as thinking money is the answer to all problems, it isn't, but if you can afford it, who cares about anyone else...............

bostonmick Posted Yesterday, 10:13 AM

I am looking at buying a shotgun as a sleeper I am looking at a browning 525 ultimate I doubt it will fire more that 100 a year as I do not do very well with brownings,however I like the look of them owned one a few years ago and regret selling it but at the time could not justify keeping it.i know the 525 is not a pure browning as it is made in japan for them but what model of true browning Belgium made would you suggest for around 2.5k.prefer it to have at least 30 inch barrels.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Dekers

[CharlieT]

Wonder what the "qualifications" requirements for an FEO would be under G4S? I can see them charging for interviews that didn't happen or renewing certificates for deceased persons......

 

Here you go.....................http://careers.g4s.com/jobs/Firearms-Enquiry-Officer_4828/

[JonathanL]

Slightly off topic but One thing I find strange In process of application it renewal is they bank your cash straight away but the interest on that can't be huge but I wonder how much time and money is spent on refunding refused or failed applications ? I'd imagine a refund has to hit a fair few departments to be processed ? Surely processing at point if sign off and allowing to clear would save time and money there ?

 

This is a rather valid point. The Firearms Act is very clear on this issue; the fee is for the grant of a certificate. It is not an application fee. The fee does not lawfully become due until the certificate is actually granted.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

I understand that your gp is under no obligation to reply.in the past I have known many drivers who fell ill heart attacks.diabetics etc where the doctors have reported to dvla and that person can no longer drive until the doctor gives an opinion that they are now fit to drive again.so if you put on your app/renew that you had say had a bout of depression but are no longer in treatment.under these conditions would you be the officer that puts his name to the approval with no medical advice.we live in a massive blame culture and everyone will cover their backside as much as they can.

 

The difference being that a doctor is required to report certain things to DVLA as a matter of law. There are other cases where things must be reported such as in the case of certain notifiable diseases. There is, however, no requirement to notify anything to the firearms licensing department.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

it was six months for a straight forward renew.reasons understaffed.pressure of work.so more resources more staff no hold ups a seamless system.another chap on another forum sent in his renew to lincs police months went by and he was getting very close to the date he phoned several times to be told they were waiting for doctors reply and he should request a sect 7 but they would not issue in the absence of gp.unfortunately for him he got ill in the meantime and decided to give up shooting.now he would probably still have stopped shooting but if he had the option of paying for the doctor direct he would have had his cert earlier.we all make choices everyday you know 1st or 2nd class stamp.m&s or aldi white gold at 200 plus a thousand or Olympics 150 a thou.sky tv 50 a month or freeview.i tax my car for twelve months some do six months is that a two tier system and that includes you personal choice.millions of these choices taken everyday by millions of people yet I say I would opt for the choice in my cert and I am wrong.i am off shooting now with my chosen beretta another choice I made is that wrong because it cost more than a Baikal.we live in a free society not old Russia.

 

Again you miss the point. All those thins you mention are laid down in law. The example of taxing a vehicle for six or twelve months is a case in point - the law affords you the choce.

 

The poitn that is being made here is that the police are essentially making things up as they go along and are implying that it has the force of law. The DVLA could not simply decide to introduce a three month tax disc as a different fee if they felt like it. It would require the relevant law to be amemded to allow it.

 

The reference you make to Communist Russia is pertinent here, I think. After all it was well accepted that in that society, a society in which everyone was equal, some were more equal than others and not by application of the law.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

 

Here you go.....................http://careers.g4s.com/jobs/Firearms-Enquiry-Officer_4828/

 

From that page. One of the requirements of the applicant:

 

• Experience and application of complex legislation and report writing in connection with legislation.

 

Complex is an understatement where firearms law is concerned, me thinks! Good look finding someone who can do that job properly for £16K a year.

 

I also note that no where is there a requirement that the applicant know anything what-so-ever about firearms.

 

J.