Lg1 Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 I'm sure this thread will have been done at some point but I can't find it.. What is the facts of posting guns? Is it legal? Who delivers them? Is there any special rules Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filzee Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Air guns Royal Mail etc. Other guns need to be sent through an RFD who will know the couriers with specific licenses etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Apparently a lot of people have taken shotguns into post offices over the years, presumably to post them. According to the news they just get arrested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lg1 Posted December 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Ok yea, iv seen this rfd, what is that? So you can only send shotguns to a dealer and not direct to a buyer? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 I'm sure this thread will have been done at some point but I can't find it.. What is the facts of posting guns? Is it legal? Who delivers them? Is there any special rules Thank you Yes, it's legal for section 1 and section 2 guns. Carriers are given an exemption in the Firearms Act so that they can possess firearms in the normal course of their business. The examption does not extent to section 5 items. Royal Mail delievers them in the normal way as they do other post. There are no special rules, as such. However, ParcelForce have their own rule that they will only delivere between accouont holding RFD's. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Ok yea, iv seen this rfd, what is that? So you can only send shotguns to a dealer and not direct to a buyer? Thanks Correct. You can send any section 1 or section 2 firearm to an RFD through the regular post. In fact, an RFD or an individual can send either of those types to another individual as long as it does not constitute a 'transaction' for legal purposes which must be completed face-to-face; in essence a 'transaction' for the puposes of the Firearms Act is a transfer of the permanent possession - for instance from an RFD's register to an FAC - and the only type of transaction in which the hand-over has to be face-to-face is this type. An FAC or SGC holder can sell his gun to an RFD and post it to him but not the other way round. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lg1 Posted December 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Correct. You can send any section 1 or section 2 firearm to an RFD through the regular post. In fact, an RFD or an individual can send either of those types to another individual as long as it does not constitute a 'transaction' for legal purposes which must be completed face-to-face; in essence a 'transaction' for the puposes of the Firearms Act is a transfer of the permanent possession - for instance from an RFD's register to an FAC - and the only type of transaction in which the hand-over has to be face-to-face is this type. An FAC or SGC holder can sell his gun to an RFD and post it to him but not the other way round. J. But how does the seller and buyer fill in the SGC prior to post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 This is how it worked with my local gun shop... 1)You go into your Registered Firearms Dealer (RFD) and say you want to post the gun to another RFD, as someone's buying it. 2)You show your own RFD the certificate that is applicable, to prove that the gun is currently legally held and had it over to them, along with the cost they require for posting and the service. 3)At that point the gun and legalities of posting become the responsibility of the RFDs. they send it to the address you've given them of the buyer's RFD. The buyer should have notified them, together with details of where it's coming from and their own certificate. 4) when it arrives, the buyer goes into the RFD and shows them the relevant certificate, to prove he or she is legally allowed to possess that gun hands over any holding charge that his or her RFD has, and that's the matter done! The only problem is if the buyer goes in and doesn't have the right certificate! At that point the gun can't be handed over and sits at the receiving RFD. If you've made reasonable moves to check the certificate electronically, then you haven't committed a crime and can easily can get the gun back, it's just a bit of a pain! It's actually pretty simple and RFDs are usually pretty helpful with the whole process, but it does cost a bit more and you don't get the peace of mind of being able to see the valid cert. with your own eyes. It's only really worth it if there is no way of meeting up or some such, like if you live in Cornwall and the gun's in Sutherland! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lg1 Posted December 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Thanks, that's well explained :0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) But how does the seller and buyer fill in the SGC prior to post? Nothing needs to be written in to the sellers certificate if it is being purchased by an RFD (or anyone else, for that matter). A private seller (or an RFD) who sells a gun to someone he has not met is supposed to have the purchaser's certifcate sent to him, he should fill it out and post it back. He posts the gun to an RFD who then hands it over to the purchaser when he shows him his cert. J. Edited December 5, 2013 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 A private seller (or an RFD) who sells a gun to someone he has not met is supposed to have the purchaser's certifcate sent to him, he should fill it out and post it back. He posts the gun to an RFD who then hands it over to the purchaser when he shows him his cert. J. I thought the buyer had to be present ie to check they are the person in the photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Nothing needs to be written in to the sellers certificate if it is being purchased by an RFD (or anyone else, for that matter). A private seller (or an RFD) who sells a gun to someone he has not met is supposed to have the purchaser's certifcate sent to him, he should fill it out and post it back. He posts the gun to an RFD who then hands it over to the purchaser when he shows him his cert. J. I have sold several guns and sent them rfd.the purchaser sends payment to the seller the seller takes the gun to the rfd who is sending the gun to the buyer at this point the rfd gives the seller a receipt as if he has bought the gun from them the rfd then sends the gun to the buyers rfd and then it is entered onto the buyers licence as sold to them by that rfd.just don't send the gun until you have full cleared payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Poon Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 I've just had my first hand experience of RFD to RFD. I bought a gun off wabbitbosher the other day and asked him to send it to my clay shooting ground as they are RFD. They both exchange details of there dealer certificates and mick sent it yesterday and i had a call today from the office at my club to say it's arrived . Simple and pain free By the way I still can't believe what some gun shops want to send and recieve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Nothing needs to be written in to the sellers certificate if it is being purchased by an RFD (or anyone else, for that matter). A private seller (or an RFD) who sells a gun to someone he has not met is supposed to have the purchaser's certifcate sent to him, he should fill it out and post it back. He posts the gun to an RFD who then hands it over to the purchaser when he shows him his cert. J. This is the correct way it should be done. Just because many RFD's do it differently does not make their way correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 This is the correct way it should be done. Just because many RFD's do it differently does not make their way correct. under uk law it is an offence to sell a firearm without a face to face meeting between the seller and buyer.that is why you in reality hand over ownership of the gun to the dealer as they have provision to transfer guns between them.there are plenty of government sites outlining the law on selling,and you can also call your local firearms department.simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 under uk law it is an offence to sell a firearm without a face to face meeting between the seller and buyer.that is why you in reality hand over ownership of the gun to the dealer as they have provision to transfer guns between them.there are plenty of government sites outlining the law on selling,and you can also call your local firearms department.simples. Which is why, when distance selling, the face to face transfer is conducted by a RFD. The completion of the purchaser's certificate is done by the individual selling the firearm. Please refer to the instructions to sellers - note 3, on your fac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Which is why, when distance selling, the face to face transfer is conducted by a RFD. The completion of the purchaser's certificate is done by the individual selling the firearm. Please refer to the instructions to sellers - note 3, on your fac. so how do you know the photo is all correct to the supposed buyer.it is a safer way to let the dealer do it all.and with all the bad press we get being extra cautious is best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) As from not that long ago (don't know the actual date) you cannot send guns (including airguns) through Royal Mail as they have a new policy regarding firearms and parts of firearms which cannot exceed 610mm (I think). Anything over this length has to go by Parcelforce or another delivery company. This has caused a lot of problems or added costs for some small firms and people doing specialist work such as barrel makers. Edited December 5, 2013 by r1steele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 so how do you know the photo is all correct to the supposed buyer.it is a safer way to let the dealer do it all.and with all the bad press we get being extra cautious is best We don't, what we are obliged to do however is to follow the instructions written on our fac's. Remembering that we have signed our fac accepting the conditions by which it was issued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) As from not that long ago (don't know the actual date) you cannot send guns (including airguns) through Royal Mail as they have a new policy regarding firearms and parts of firearms which cannot exceed 610mm (I think). Anything over this length has to go by Parcelforce or another delivery company. This has caused a lot of problems or added costs for some small firms and people doing specialist work such as barrel makers. NOpe that didnt go through royal mail still carry guns and parts......... http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Restricted-Goods and http://www.royalmail.com/business/help-and-support/tell-me-about-restricted-goods Guns for sporting use Guns intended for sporting purposes - including Section 1 (e.g. hunting rifles) and Section 2 (e.g. shotguns) firearms, low-powered air weapons and their component parts - may be sent in compliance with UK law and subject to domestic controls on the possession of firearms. Antiques, deactivated and imitation firearms are also permitted. When sending deactivated firearms include proof of deactivation. Items that appear to be prohibited weapons may be subject to additional checks and delays. Please see www.royalmail.com/prohibitedgoods Use 1st Class as the minimum service. The sender’s name and address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging. Edited December 5, 2013 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) I thought the buyer had to be present ie to check they are the person in the photo He does - to the RFD who the seller posts the gun to. J. Edit; I misread the post. The buyer does not need to be present. It is irrelavant where the gun is coming from as far as the law is concerned. Even if the gun is illegally possessed by the seller the buyer would commit no offence by having it entered onto his certificate. Likewise, there is no requirement for an RFD to check that a gun is legally possessed before he enters it onto his register. The law was specifically designed in this manner as it was pragmatically reckoned that any gun coming into the system of legal regulation was better than it staying illegal. However....a certificate holder or an RFD is under a duty (as detailed on your cert) to report any circumstances of the transaction which may reasonably require investigation - or words to that effect. Edited December 5, 2013 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 I have sold several guns and sent them rfd.the purchaser sends payment to the seller the seller takes the gun to the rfd who is sending the gun to the buyer at this point the rfd gives the seller a receipt as if he has bought the gun from them the rfd then sends the gun to the buyers rfd and then it is entered onto the buyers licence as sold to them by that rfd.just don't send the gun until you have full cleared payment. That's pretty much how it happens in most cases although it is not the way it is *supposed* to happen. Your FAC/SGC details the legally proper way in which it should happen which is the method I've described above. Namely that, the buyer sends his certificate to the person selling the gun; the seller then fills in the buyer's cert with the details of the gun (as he would if the buyer were standing in front of him) he then sends the gun to the buyers nominated RFD and posts the certificate back to the buyer. The buyer then takes his cert to the receiving RFD who hands him the gun. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) under uk law it is an offence to sell a firearm without a face to face meeting between the seller and buyer.that is why you in reality hand over ownership of the gun to the dealer as they have provision to transfer guns between them.there are plenty of government sites outlining the law on selling,and you can also call your local firearms department.simples. This is not correct. It is most certainly NOT an offence to sell a firearm to someone whom you have not personally met and ownership of it can quite legally transfer to the buyer without the two parties ever having met. The requirement is that the *final hand over* to the person receiving it must be done in person or by an RFD. If I advertise a gun for sale and you email me and agree to purchase it and then transfer me the money then we have concluded a sale and the gun becomes your property at that particular point in time. If I then post the gun direct to you I commit an offence. If I send it to your RFD and you collect it from him then I do not. No RFD in the chain ever obtained legal title to the gun. J. Edited December 5, 2013 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 so how do you know the photo is all correct to the supposed buyer. You don't. That is why you have to send it to an RFD who checks the certificate details against the person who turns up at his premises to collect it! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 How do you know the person you are posting to is an RFD? Is there a public register? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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