HDAV Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Has your eye dominance been checked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinribz Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Yes im an airgunner so im left eye dominant so shoot lefty but im write right handed basically totally kak handed lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Yes im an airgunner Which is probably why you find it weird seeing the rib. Rifle shooters often take a while to adjust to shotguns because the technique is so different. A good coach from APSI as welshwarrior says will make all the difference. Alternatively look up Carl Bloxham, you'll have to wait but he's one of the best and not too far from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAsh Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 So far so bad If you can see a fair length of rib you need your eye lowered untill you just see the bead and the only way to do that is to go to a gunsmith and have the stock lowered by heat treatment which in my case this year cost a sum of £40.00, also offered a pattern plate before and after A quick check can be made by getting your instructer to check the gun is empty, then with the instructer about 15 feet away mount the gun and point at one of his eye's, he will then be able to confirm if you are aiming on tagret or if to the left, right, high or low Length of stock can as a rough guide be measured between the cheek and the start of the drop of the combe which on average is about 3 to 4 fingers width, but again the gunsmith is trained to measure this for you and he / she will be the one to adjust it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Yes im an airgunner so im left eye dominant so shoot lefty but im write right handed basically totally kak handed lolSame as me then, does the gun have a cast on stock? It is an option on beretta but rare on stock guns at dealers. If not the your going to have issues if your not sure turn gun upside down, stock on floor barrel in hand (empty) and look from muzzle to stock looking along the barrel underside the stock should kick over to the left Edited December 20, 2013 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 So far so bad If you can see a fair length of rib you need your eye lowered untill you just see the bead Well that may be how you like to shoot but it's not the way shotguns are designed to be shot. What do you think the the mid bead is for on guns which have them? If you were meant to look flat along the rib and see only the bead they would fit a rear notch sight of some kind; certainly not a mid bead. The one and only point of the mid bead is to stack it with the front bead to ensure the gun is correctly aligned horizontally & vertically so that the eye is above the rib. If I remember correctly, Ed Solomons who sometimes posts on here and is one of the best shots in the country, has his eye about 1½ inches above the rib. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAsh Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Well that may be how you like to shoot but it's not the way shotguns are designed to be shot. What do you think the the mid bead is for on guns which have them? If you were meant to look flat along the rib and see only the bead they would fit a rear notch sight of some kind; certainly not a mid bead. The one and only point of the mid bead is to stack it with the front bead to ensure the gun is correctly aligned horizontally & vertically so that the eye is above the rib. If I remember correctly, Ed Solomons who sometimes posts on here and is one of the best shots in the country, has his eye about 1½ inches above the rib. Would not the middle bead be the same as a sight you have them both in line at the same height If your eye is 1.5 inches above the rib then the gun must be pointing upwards in relation to the point you are looking at Maybe he has a 1.5" bead Edited December 20, 2013 by ChrisAsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Why are either of you lining up beads or even looking at them look at the targets you don't need a bead at all let alone 2 or a fibre optic things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAsh Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) This is what you are saying is good?? Never mentioned middle bead Image drawn using a stationary clay to simplify things Edited December 20, 2013 by ChrisAsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I'm not recommending 1½", that's what I understand Ed likes, but ¼" or so is pretty normal. What matters is being able to point and for that to function normally the barrels need to be sloping uphill a little compared with the line of sight. The test for gunfit and mount is when the bore axis line and the eye line converge at the kill point which is what's meant by shooting where you're looking. By and large the beads have no role in actual shooting because if you see the bead you're almost certainly going to miss the target, in fact many people remove them altogether. Beads aren't really necessary, the first time I tried shooting from the hip I was amazed at how easy it is to hit the clays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I was told that a figure 8 with the 2 beads would be a perfect fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 This is what you are saying is good?? No, it's not what I'm saying. These things aren't rifles and aiming them doesn't work well. If you do another drawing showing a line from the eye to the target first then a line to the gun mounted just below the eye, you'll see that the gun needs to be sloping up a few degrees for the lines to converge. What you then have is a view of the target virtually unobstructed by the gun. Makes shooting much easier and you never see the bead. Ask Richard Faulds about beads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I was told that a figure 8 with the 2 beads would be a perfect fit It's the classic starting point for guns with 2 beads but may not always be perfect. Some like to see a gap between the beads, others like a bit of overlap but you can be sure they aren't meant to be lined up flat so you can only see one. There's abslutely no point to a mid bead if you do that, a rear sight would be much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashman1 Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Welshwarrior is spot on dont need a bead look at target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinribz Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Any way back to my gun fitting me do i need a lesson or 2 with a coach or a gunsmith i just wana shoot pigeons not fresh air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 mate , save yourself all the agro and see your gunsmith , there be debating this for months yet :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Problem is the gun could fit fine it could be your mount you need someone to see you shoot (clays) and make real diagnosis So is the gun cast on or off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinribz Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I have no idea wot that is ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Personnel I would see a gun fitter he/she can help you with your mount stance etc advice on the gun and give you measurement to adjust the gun. Most will also recommend a local stocker or gunsmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Lay the gun rib down on the table, now measure from the table to the end of the stock and take note. (The gun is upside down). Now take the gun and gently close the action on some card so it can not completely shut. Mount the gun and adjust the amount of card until you are happy about how much barrel your seeing. Now lay upside down again on the table and take the new measurement. Subtract the first from the last and you have how much you want to drop the stock by. Usually 1/4" is all that is needed. Nowt worse than a high shooting shotgun! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Very few gunsmiths or dealers are well enough versed to be gun fitters and very few gun fitters are good instructors. Besides, unless and until you are confident that your stance and mount are 100% right a fitting is a waste of money. The place to begin is out on the course with a good instructor. Not Joe Hotshot with his 35 ex 50 every week down the club and who knows everything, but a proper recommended instructor. He/she will check everything including fit, advise if a fitting is needed and recommend someone trusted to do the work. You will never regret spending a couple of hundred on a few lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I have no idea wot that is ? if the stock is designed for a left or right handed shooter (which way it bends)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinribz Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 O rite no its cast right i asked for it to be left but the guy i bought it from told me it didnt matter as theres not realy any difrence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 very few gun fitters are good instructors. s. I strongly disagree with this to be a good gun fitter you need to be a competent instructor as gun fit is working the shooter a gun into one entity. Look at the top shooting schools where a wrong gunfit leads to thousands or even 100 thousands being wasted at West London Hollands Bisley And Royal Berkshire all the gun fitters are top instructors before they start gun fittings. Look at APSI courses etc and to attend a gunfitters course your must show your a good instructor first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) O rite no its cast right i asked for it to be left but the guy i bought it from told me it didnt matter as theres not realy any difrence Where did you buy it? They are morons if there was no difference why would they not make them all straight? Berretta from the factory have a fair bit of cast.... and for you its going the wrong direction! http://www.fieldsportsmagazine.com/Shooting-Instruction/gun-fitting-with-simon-ward.html http://www.positiveshooting.com/GunFittingP2Main.html http://www.joeletchenguns.com/choosing_adjusting.pdf HAve a read Edited December 20, 2013 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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