wildfowler.250 Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Well today I took a walk around a few acres for a pheasant,(emphasis on the word few). Anyway, I was walking up a 45 degree grass field when a pheasant at the top end of it flushed itself and flew down past me. I clattered it with the first shot,(almost thought it was going to drop) but it kept going. Second shot also hit it very hard and still it flew on! The bird managed the length of the small field I had walked before collapsing in a wood on the other side of a single track road,(I made sure to mark it well). I knew the guy that shot the bit of ground where the bird dropped so no worries having a look for it. I must have spent over half an hour with the lab going through thorns and whinn bushes. Taking the dog up into the wind and everything but no sign. Have to say that was me severely peed off for the rest of the day. No winners in these situations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I lost a pinkfoot last week that dropped no more than 25 yards from me, dog marked it but it had just dissapeared, even with 4 dogs we never found it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixhills 69 Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Hate it when they ware body armour it's so unsporting like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixhills 69 Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I lost a pinkfoot last week that dropped no more than 25 yards from me, dog marked it but it had just dissapeared, even with 4 dogs we never found it! Are you supposed to be shooting outside area 57 Sounds spooky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I lost a pinkfoot last week that dropped no more than 25 yards from me, dog marked it but it had just dissapeared, even with 4 dogs we never found it! It's very frustrating! Did it go down a hole? Take off again? Get into a burn? There's not much you can do about it but it doesn't help at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 It's very frustrating! Did it go down a hole? Take off again? Get into a burn? There's not much you can do about it but it doesn't help at the time Honestly couldnt tell you, it just dissapeared, it didnt go back out onto the mud, it must have just dug itself into the mud or something daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Hate it when they ware body armour it's so unsporting like I know. I was probably fractionally back but I knew after the second shot it was going to drop. Just couldn't find a sign of it! Honestly couldnt tell you, it just dissapeared, it didnt go back out onto the mud, it must have just dug itself into the mud or something daft. I have seen my dog run right over the top of birds because they were clarted in mud. Must fairly mask the smell. Hard luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Saw this yesterday, one of the lads hit a big cock pheasant hard with both barrels, big cloud of feathers but it flew on. We looked for it for ages but no joy. With all these threads about cartridge quality it makes you wonder if it had been incorrectly loaded with tiny shot instead of No.5's and just bounced off with a flurry of feathers. After losing the odd runner on a driven shoot I always send my dog straight on to fetch dropped birds immediately, in fact I don't even watch the dog, he sits behind until the birds start dropping and then he does his job, fetches them as they fall and drops them back on the peg, then waits for the next one. Someone once made a comment about the dog just running in and doing what he wants, but he does exactly what I want from a dog, I shoot and he fetches. If I need to he'll recall instantly on the whistle, but he knows his job and I just let him do it while I concentrate on the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Late season cock pheasants can appear lead proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 To be honest (and i include myself here) a lot of us just can't shoot very well If u get infront off them they are definately not lead proof, but i had a few like that yest too Must admit i like smaller shot and use 6's or 7's for everything, anything past 25m u will not really kill it with a heart shot anyway, so more shot and denser pattern to hopefully hit it in the head, yet if u are behind it wont have the same penetration to hurt/injure the bird that u would have with 5's. When i first stared shooting it was always an ounce (think 28g) was a stanard 12G load, now folk often use 36g of 5's on average birds and with the speed modern cartridges travel at its just ruining some birds. Just no need (for normal birds at least) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Saw this yesterday, one of the lads hit a big cock pheasant hard with both barrels, big cloud of feathers but it flew on. We looked for it for ages but no joy. With all these threads about cartridge qmuality it makes you wonder if it had been incorrectly loaded with tiny shot instead of No.5's and just bounced off with a flurry of feathers. After losing the odd runner on a driven shoot I always send my dog straight on to fetch dropped birds immediately, in fact I don't even watch the dog, he sits behind until the birds start dropping and then he does his job, fetches them as they fall and drops them back on the peg, then waits for the next one. Someone once made a comment about the dog just running in and doing what he wants, but he does exactly what I want from a dog, I shoot and he fetches. If I need to he'll recall instantly on the whistle, but he knows his job and I just let him do it while I concentrate on the sky. I did jog all the way down the hill after it but I was sure it was dead anyway. Clearly it must have legged it when it landed. My old dog used to run in which doesn't look great. But sometimes it saves the day. Had the odd goose glide down over the years and land a long way back. If the dog is right on its tail then it make a big difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 To be honest (and i include myself here) a lot of us just can't shoot very well If u get infront off them they are definately not lead proof, but i had a few like that yest too Must admit i like smaller shot and use 6's or 7's for everything, anything past 25m u will not really kill it with a heart shot anyway, so more shot and denser pattern to hopefully hit it in the head, yet if u are behind it wont have the same penetration to hurt/injure the bird that u would have with 5's. When i first stared shooting it was always an ounce (think 28g) was a stanard 12G load, now folk often use 36g of 5's on average birds and with the speed modern cartridges travel at its just ruining some birds. Just no need (for normal birds at least) I was definitely rusty. Hadn't used the gun in 2 weeks. I'd say my swing was possibly half an inch back but that's all you need on a bird that's further out. I've been using 32gram 6 sipes and get on very well with them. Just couldn't believe it when I could tell the bird was going to drop. It hit the base of a tree,(I'm pretty sure the legs were also gone) but no sign of it. You can't do much more than look but it's very annoying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 This is why I like big loads. But with big shot. There is a big difference between 4 and 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 This is why I like big loads. But with big shot. There is a big difference between 4 and 6. I've generally go the same way. Think the 6 in sipes are actually a 5.5? A 4 would be fine for a pheasant but if I flushed a woodcock I'd prefer a better pattern. It's all a compromise. I'd just rather miss things clean than lose something. The only token is that it was hit hard and was probably died quickly. Suppose you can't do much about it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 This is why I like big loads. But with big shot. There is a big difference between 4 and 6. There is a big difference, but a 6 will still kill a 50 yard pheasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmyman Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 The simple truth is that if a bird is a strong runner then it wasn't hit in a vulnerable area ie head/neck. I can't believe that so many people feel that shot size is so critical to achieving clean kills on a medium sized bird such as a Pheasant out to 40yds or so. After all said and done a 300 WIN MAG wont achieve a clean kill on a mouse if you shoot it in the tail Regards remmyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I'm the same as above i'm happy to shoot any average pheasant, or duck (scotland so lead shot) with 7's (usually use 6's thou), if i am in front of a bird it will be dead just as it wil be with heavier shot, but u probably have twice as many pellets in the pattern from 4's to 7's. If it is a decent high bird and i'm too far back the the bird should just have a 'sore' back end while with heavier shot it will penetrate and damage the gut but very unlikely to travel to a vital organ to kill it quickly. Using 4's for normal game shots is unneccesary, unless ur a very good shot all ur doing is wounding more birds, u may get an odd broken wing which would not be achieved with 6's but any bird u shoot and kill with 4's would also be shot and killed with 6's, unless u are a very good shot and consistantly putting it infront off them at extreme ranges, but 90% of us aren't good enough to do that As for heavier/larger loads makes no difference, if ur pointing the gun in the wrong place u could fire a punt gun at them, u fire that biger load smack on u will mince any bird even at normal sporting ranges. I picked 10 brace off the cart last nite in the dark, wot a mess some off the birds are, and when u look at the empties in the trailer a lot of folk are shoooting 4 and 5's 36g high bird loads, while this shoot shows some good birds and some very good birds there is no need for loads like that esp with these modern fast shells. The boys who can shoot are still kocking them down with normal 28-32g loads I firmly beleive and esp so with walked up going away birds anything more than 20yds u need to be hitting them in the head anything else is just wounding them. Read an article in the ST a while ago now (think blue zulu wrote it) anyway some old victorian? toff wrote in his book about the golden age of game shooting that if they went to an estate with 'higher' birds (not high by todays standards as more into bag size than quality) they would take a pocket full off 8's. His reasoning was.... he got a load of his buddies to mark any really high bird they shot and give it to him, he plucked/skinned/PM'd the birds and in all cases was 1 or 2 pellets to the head or neck area and hardly a mark on the body, so figured the more pellets/better pattern the more chance of getting a 'lucky' pellet in the head These boys could shoot and would be shooting thousands upon thousands of birds in a season to their own gun Gettin late in season but mark a very high bird u shot stone dead,pluck it, i will bet the kill shot is 1 pellet in the head, and compare to a walked up bird which was hit very hard (alomst pillow cased) but still ran on, when plucked could have a lot of damage but no fatal wound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmyman Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I'm the same as above i'm happy to shoot any average pheasant, or duck (scotland so lead shot) with 7's (usually use 6's thou), if i am in front of a bird it will be dead just as it wil be with heavier shot, but u probably have twice as many pellets in the pattern from 4's to 7's. If it is a decent high bird and i'm too far back the the bird should just have a 'sore' back end while with heavier shot it will penetrate and damage the gut but very unlikely to travel to a vital organ to kill it quickly. Using 4's for normal game shots is unneccesary, unless ur a very good shot all ur doing is wounding more birds, u may get an odd broken wing which would not be achieved with 6's but any bird u shoot and kill with 4's would also be shot and killed with 6's, unless u are a very good shot and consistantly putting it infront off them at extreme ranges, but 90% of us aren't good enough to do that As for heavier/larger loads makes no difference, if ur pointing the gun in the wrong place u could fire a punt gun at them, u fire that biger load smack on u will mince any bird even at normal sporting ranges. I picked 10 brace off the cart last nite in the dark, wot a mess some off the birds are, and when u look at the empties in the trailer a lot of folk are shoooting 4 and 5's 36g high bird loads, while this shoot shows some good birds and some very good birds there is no need for loads like that esp with these modern fast shells. The boys who can shoot are still kocking them down with normal 28-32g loads I firmly beleive and esp so with walked up going away birds anything more than 20yds u need to be hitting them in the head anything else is just wounding them. Read an article in the ST a while ago now (think blue zulu wrote it) anyway some old victorian? toff wrote in his book about the golden age of game shooting that if they went to an estate with 'higher' birds (not high by todays standards as more into bag size than quality) they would take a pocket full off 8's. His reasoning was.... he got a load of his buddies to mark any really high bird they shot and give it to him, he plucked/skinned/PM'd the birds and in all cases was 1 or 2 pellets to the head or neck area and hardly a mark on the body, so figured the more pellets/better pattern the more chance of getting a 'lucky' pellet in the head These boys could shoot and would be shooting thousands upon thousands of birds in a season to their own gun Gettin late in season but mark a very high bird u shot stone dead,pluck it, i will bet the kill shot is 1 pellet in the head, and compare to a walked up bird which was hit very hard (alomst pillow cased) but still ran on, when plucked could have a lot of damage but no fatal wound Nicely put Regards remmyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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