Lincolnshire - variation turnaround times

[rogcal]

Has anyone got any recent experience of Lincolnshire police's turnaround times for variations?

 

Following a call to them today I was advised 60 days but could be longer dependent on workloads.

 

I really don't know what is going on at Lincoln but I do know that since G4S got their feet under the table matters have got worse and when one considers that when Lincs police were dealing with all aspects of licensing, variations were being turned around in 14 to 21 days

 

Given that my co-terminous renewal took almost 5 months last year, I'm not looking forward to another long wait!

Edited February 11, 2014 by rogcal

[Whitebridges]

Try getting in touch with Alan Harwick your Police and Crime Commissioner for Lincolnshire.

 

http://www.lincolnshire-pcc.gov.uk/homepagepcclincs.aspx

[rogcal]

Try getting in touch with Alan Harwick your Police and Crime Commissioner for Lincolnshire.

 

http://www.lincolnshire-pcc.gov.uk/homepagepcclincs.aspx

 

Have done so and am awaiting his reply!

[rogcal]

Just an update on the situation here in Lincolnshire.

 

I did write (email) the PCC Alan Hardwick on the subject (see below) and I'm still awaiting a response.

 

Sir,

I am becoming increasingly concerned with the length of time taken to administer renewals and variations of firearm and shotgun licences.

Prior to G4S administering this function on behalf of Lincolnshire police renewals and applications were taking between 3 to 6 weeks to turnaround. Last year my co-terminous licence renewal took 22 weeks to complete. I might add there were no complicating issues with my application.

On speaking to the firearms licensing office today I was informed that a variation would take up to 60 days or longer if workloads were heavy at the time of application.

When one considers that variations I had applied for prior to the change of service provider, I could expect a turnaround time of 2 to 3 weeks at most! After the lengthy delays I experienced last year I would have thought matters would have improved however, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Can you please provide me with an explanation as to why timescales changed so drastically following the change to G4S providing the administration of firearms licensing and why this situation is apparently being allowed to continue?

Thank you.

 

What worries me is the fact that when any contract is put out to tender for the supply of services such as would have been when Lincolnshire Police Authority sought tenders for the administration of firearms licensing, there would have been set out clearly in the specification of the contract, the SLAs (service level agreements) that would need to be achieved by the successful bidder for the contract, in this case G4S.

 

Perhaps I should start making enquiries under the FOI Act, as to what timescales were set out under the SLA for applications, renewals and variations but something tells me I'll be flogging a dead horse, as I wouldn't be surprised if I'm told that the information is withheld due to the nature of it being commercially sensitive!

[Brooksy789]

G4S are a load of tosh! Just take a look at the muck up they made at the Olympics!

[J_Edwards]

G4S are a load of tosh! Just take a look at the muck up they made at the Olympics!

 

I think they have something to do with prisons aswell. I was at an airport and a G4S prison van and convoy turned up. Uniforms, hi-vis and radios everywhere. A petite little Romanian illegal immigrant facing deportation stepped out of the van, probably in her late teens, shackled-up like she was Hannibal Lecter! It was the biggest over-reaction I've ever seen, there must have been a dozen big G4S men with her marching her to the plane.

[Brooksy789]

 

I think they have something to do with prisons aswell. I was at an airport and a G4S prison van and convoy turned up. Uniforms, hi-vis and radios everywhere. A petite little Romanian illegal immigrant facing deportation stepped out of the van, probably in her late teens, shackled-up like she was Hannibal Lecter! It was the biggest over-reaction I've ever seen, there must have been a dozen big G4S men with her marching her to the plane.

It seems they do all sorts. Prison staff/transport, security guards, cash machines, and now it seems firearms licensing also! You name it they probably do it! Edited February 18, 2014 by Brooksy789

[VicW]

When G4S got the contract for the civilian aspects of Lincs Police the staff didn't change, only the employer.

If the employer is a poor supervisor of their staff and contract requirements then the service provided may worsen which it seems to have done.

 

Vic.

[bostonmick]

I believe G4S hold the record for losing most prisoners.in transport.and if I remember correctly they lost the contract at one prison.but they are cheap

[rogcal]

Just found this interesting statement in a report published by the Lincolnshire Police and Crime Commisioner's Office entitled:

 

THE G4S LINCOLNSHIRE POLICE

STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP

– ONE YEAR ON

ANNUAL REPORT

JUNE 2013

 

Firearms Licensing

This area is responsible for the efficient

operation and management of the legal

ownership of firearms, shotguns and explosives

within the county.

This includes processing all

applications for shotgun and firearms licences;

the renewals of shotgun and firearms licences

and amendments to licences, such as change

of addresses.

Prior to April 2012 the Firearms Licensing service area

had 15.48 full time equivalent staff. All bar two staff

transferred across to G4S under TUPE arrangements.

Those who remained employed by Lincolnshire Police

did so to ensure that applications could continue to be

signed by a representative of the Chief Constable.

The service maintains more than 20,000 firearm

and shotgun certificates, covering approximately

50,000 legally held guns, a high figure reflecting the

predominantly rural nature of the county.

The planned service improvements were:

Digitalise the management of the applications

to create a paperless environment, this includes:

The completion of a back record scanning

of all historic files, which is searchable.

The introduction of an intelligent document

management system that will enable officers

to receive accurate live information, providing

them with more intelligence when responding

to incidents.

New processes have been introduced to the service

area leading to a reduction in time of the processing of

the applications. This has ensured that all applications

for the last eight months are being completed, with

a decision made within 60 days - an improvement on

previous performance.

The main success of the last year has been the

partnership working between Crime Management

Bureau (CMB) and Firearms Licensing. This has resulted

in the sharing and utilising of skill sets across the service

areas enabling staff to be omni-competent and share

supervisory capability.

The new working practices have enabled the backlogged

files of renewals and grants of shotguns to be cleared,

which was approximately four months

.

This backlog has effectively been reversed, with the team now able to

proactively prepare files up to two months in advance

.

The greatest challenge has been identifying a document

management system that will enable the reduction of

double keying, by interfacing directly with the crime

management system and with the National Firearms

Licensing Management System (NFLMS).

Now, forgive me for being a sceptic but a report published in June of last year would have taken a reasonable amount of time to compile and given that I sent in my renewal in April two months before my co-terminous licences were due to expire and if I had read this statement at the time I would have expected my renewal to have been completed in the 60 days quoted above and not the 140 days it actually took.

Someone, somewhere is being very economical with the true facts and given that the PCC's office was happy to publish this report in their name, the buck stops with Mr Hardwick and it's no surprise his office is keeping quiet by not responding to my enquiry.

Oh well, I don't expect any kind of honest clarity from his office, as a man who decides to sack a Chief Constable on what appears to be a whim, is then instructed to reinstate him and finally instructed to apologise to that Chief Constable, has little going for him in my book!

Edited February 18, 2014 by rogcal

[deershooter]

Don't rock the boat too much they have looked through all my posts on pigeonwatch big brother is watching this is first hand experance any one want any more info do it by pm

 

Deershooter

[rogcal]

Thanks Deershooter. You have a PM

[rogcal]

May I make one thing clear in respect of my concerns at the length of time taken for renewals, applications and variations at Lincolnshire firearms licensing department.

 

I do not believe that any of the staff employed at any level in the department are responsible for the increase in timescales following the introduction of outside resourcing by G4S.

 

In fact I'm pretty certain that many of them would have been flagging up the issues that brought about the delays in service as soon as they became aware of them.

 

However, like all private sector organisations providing outside resourcing to public authorities, the senior managers would have been keen to stick to the planned policy and procedures initiated when they took over the service. To do anything other than that would upset the corporate goals they set themselves when they tendered their successful bid for providing services a couple of years ago!

 

The fault IMHO, lies entirely with those responsible for monitoring the quality and effectiveness of the service provided, when set against the requirements of the SLAs and their failure to act appropriately in a timely manner.

 

To put it bluntly G4S were allowed to drop the ball and no one in the PCC's office told them to pick it up until it was too late!

Edited February 19, 2014 by rogcal

[bostonmick]

Could this not just be a case of timing.there must be periods when they are busier than others.and we may just be experiencing one of those.i fully expect to read posts in the not to distant future saying how fast and efficient the service is.atb

[rogcal]

.i fully expect to read posts in the not to distant future saying how fast and efficient the service is.atb

 

When that day comes I'll be the first to come on here and praise them but since G4S became the service provider the timescales have been consistently longer than previously experienced and continue to be so.

 

As for timing and busy periods, I never experienced such under the previous administration nor heard of others experiencing delays due to seasonal or otherwise increases in workload.

 

Anyway, the current longer timescales have been experienced for over a year now and if busy periods were to blame, I would have expected to see those timescales varying in line with workloads and this has not happened!

[bostonmick]

 

When that day comes I'll be the first to come on here and praise them but since G4S became the service provider the timescales have been consistently longer than previously experienced and continue to be so.

 

As for timing and busy periods, I never experienced such under the previous administration nor heard of others experiencing delays due to seasonal or otherwise increases in workload.

 

Anyway, the current longer timescales have been experienced for over a year now and if busy periods were to blame, I would have expected to see those timescales varying in line with workloads and this has not happened!

My grandson put in for his first certificate and had no criminal record no medical problem of any kind.the ex lady mayor of Boston as referee.it took six months.this was just before the change and lincs police were still doing it all in house.there are no doubt many factors to be taken into account.atb

[Ttfjlc]

I must admit my renewal time was spot on, the paperwork suggested to allow at least 8 weeks, the feo turned up after 3 weeks and 5 weeks later my certificates were here!

[rogcal]

Well, it looks as though the matter's closed then and no matter what factors need to be taken into account if and when delays occur, we should accept it and not ask why!

[deershooter]

Why don't the police extend some peoples licences to overcome the backlog as licences changed from 3 years to 5 you could then even the amount out as there will be 3 busy years and 2 slack years in a 5 year period

 

Deershooter

[Ttfjlc]

Wasn't it in December when the new certificates kicked in? I would of thought if the forms are easier to fill in the processing would be to

[Whitebridges]

Phew, all looks a bit of a shambles to me.

I can't fault our local firearms team. Poetry in motion but I guess this is no consolation to you is it?

[bostonmick]

 

Have done so and am awaiting his reply!

I would not hold my breath for a reply.if you look at his performance in his first year.he has done a lot of damage to the Lincolnshire force that is going to take a very long time to repair.and I fear he is not the man to effect this.

[rogcal]

An update on my variation application with Lincs Police (or should I say G4S).

 

When I first enquired what the timescale would be I was told 60 days and today it dropped through the letterbox 57 days after the application was received.

 

Got everything I asked for with the conditions I expected, so well pleased at the outcome.

 

Now just a case of waiting for the right guns to come up for sale!

 

Oh and just for the record and apart from an acknowledgement, I didn't get a reply to my letter to the Lincolnshire PCC Alan Hardwick in which I asked for an explanation as to why the lengthy timescales involved in turning around applications, renewals and variations were still being encountered despite his office stating last year that they had got on top of the situation.

 

Politicians (and ex Yorkshire TV presenters), don't you just love 'em!

Edited May 9, 2014 by rogcal

[Whitebridges]

Good news you got the result you wanted rogcal.

 

Very disappointing to learn you never received a reply to your letter.

 

Is this level of "service" typical in Lincolnshire? Or maybe your personal circumstances in this instance meant a longer than usual delay?

 

57 days for something simple is a pisstake.

[rogcal]

.

 

Is this level of "service" typical in Lincolnshire? Or maybe your personal circumstances in this instance meant a longer than usual delay?

 

57 days for something simple is a pisstake.

 

No unfortunately, lengthy timescales have become the norm since with Lincolnshire Police since G4S took over the firearms licencing function.

 

Last year's FAC and SGC renewal took almost 5 months, hence the letter to the PCC requesting an explanation for the continuing situation when I learnt that a variation was going to take 2 months.

 

As for any unusual circumstances being causative of the lengthy timescale, there was no FEO visit or phone call, nor any other form of contact between my posting the application and receiving my FAC back yesterday.

 

The other thing that surprised me about the process of granting this variation is that the gun club I attend was not contacted to confirm my membership particularly as my stated need for the guns was for the purpose of target shooting and the existing "need" on my FAC was for pest control purposes.

 

Perhaps they (Lincs Police) see me as an upstanding member of the community who poses no risk to the public and can be trusted to follow the conditions appended to the FAC.

 

Perhaps I should become a saint or politician. Nah, I'm not corrupt enough for politician and my knees hurt when I'm kneeling down to pray!