deershooter Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 [PDF]Firearms License Applications - Lincolnshire Police www.lincs.police.uk/.../F-2013-00177-Firearms-License-Applications-A-.p... The duty of the Lincolnshire Police is to ensure that all firearms, shotguns ...... Highlight any specifics to FEO, i.e. if a doctors letter has been requested etc. G4S. Take a look here looks like Lincolnshire have a doctors letter for every new application and pay the fees Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I cannot get the link to work just type Lincolnshire police firearms doctors letter Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Try http://www.lincs.police.uk/Library/Freedom-of-Information/Disclosure-Log/2013/F-2013-00177-Firearms-License-Applications-A-.pdf Guidance from the Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to the Police which was published in 2001 will remain the basis for all procedures, practices and policies within the force. Slightly concerning Edited March 21, 2014 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNS Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 That's half an hour of my life I'll not get back. I think you're wrong, read page 36 of the full document again. It seems quite clear that a doctor's letter is requested when there is an answer to the medical history question on the application form which gives rise to concern. I think that's in line with the Home Office guidelines and seems quite reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogcal Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I read the document when it was produced last year and didn't see anything that indicated anything on the lines of which Deershooter was inferring and when I reread it again three weeks ago for clarification on procedures for the granting of a variation, I still didn't see anything that gave cause for concern about applicants either supplying a Doctor's reference or paying an additional fee. As DNS says in his response, page 36 of the document relates to a request for a Doctor's letter and on page 38 under the heading "Activities for Medical Referrals" refers to "pay invoice in relation to Doctor's letter" with G4S being shown as the party responsible for this action. No where in the procedure does it state the applicant is responsible for obtaining the Doctor's letter or for paying the Doctor's fee! I do believe we have to be on our guard and be ready to express our views very strongly to our MPs and Government ministers if it looks as though paying for medical references becomes a serious possibility but as it stands at present we are very lucky not too, particularly when one considers how the DVLA for instance put the onus on us to supply medical references at our cost when medical evidence is required by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Now look at page 29 5.56 item 14regarding the issue of new shotgun and firearm certificates This happens on all new applicants Deershooter Edited March 21, 2014 by deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Northumbria contacted my doctor on my last renewal, I saw the request when I went in for a meds review and we were both looking at the screen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNS Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Deershooter, If you have personal experience and you're saying that you know that's what happens, then I'm not disputing that. The table you refer to is - in my opinion - a supposedly complete list of all the tasks which may be required out in respect of a grant, each with the responsible organisatiojn identified. From my reading of the document (and I'm not going to invest another half-hour) it did not seem as though a doctors letter would be requested unless a response the the medical question on the application form gave cause for concern. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I read the part regading procedures to follow if GP's report needed, but understood it to mean the invoice was paid by the licensing authority, and not the applicant. If the local rozzers are supposed to wade through all that and not just licensing staff , then I'm not surprised we don't see any on the streets around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogcal Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) I think I owe Deershooter a thank you for raising this matter on here. Not that he was correct with his assumption that the reference in the document to "request Doctor's letter" was inferring that the applicant would be paying for it, as this document was published in 2013 and is purely a reference document used by Lincs Firearms Licensing to ensure procedures are followed in a particular sequence and who is responsible for carrying it out. No, the thank you is for prompting me to ring Lincs Firearms Licensing for confirmation that the document was just as I have described above i.e. a procedural flow and responsibility document which was confirmed but was then told that the "Force" were in the process of implementing the ACPO guidelines which came about following a meeting in June of last year which recommend that the cost of a Doctor's letter be met by the applicant. So there it is, Lincolnshire Firearms Licensing are now expecting an applicant to pay the cost of a Doctor's letter. To further clarify the situation, I was informed that where no changes had occurred in a persons medical history between renewals and variations, no Doctor's letter would be requested but if an additional medical condition had been stated on the application form or an existing condition had worsened a Doctor's letter would be requested and the applicant would be liable for its cost. The person I spoke with also said that a degree of common sense would be used and if informed of new medical condition that was clearly not going to the affect applicant's ability to safely use a firearm, a Doctor's letter would not be required. So, Deershooter was right to express his concern but his basis for doing so was a misinterpretation of a document still in use but which I expect will shortly be amended to show an additional procedure relating to cost of Doctor's letters, who pays for them and if they are required. As to the cost of the Doctor's letter, I was informed that the lowest cost invoiced to Lincs Firearms Licensing was £25 plus VAT and the highest £168. So the cost comes down to whether you have a greedy Doctor or not! What I find unacceptable is that like many Police Forces, Lincolnshire Police have opted to follow ACPO guidelines which are not enshrined in legislation and it is Lincolnshire's intention to use these guidelines as a basis for implementing changes to firearms licensing until challenged in the Courts or until sometime as another Force is challenged and the ACPO Guidelines on this matter are no longer followed. Edited March 21, 2014 by rogcal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) What I find unacceptable is that like many Police Forces, Lincolnshire Police have opted to follow ACPO guidelines which are not enshrined in legislation and it is Lincolnshire's intention to use these guidelines as a basis for implementing changes to firearms licensing until challenged in the Courts or until sometime as another Force is challenged and the ACPO Guidelines on this matter are no longer followed. I find this unacceptable also. Have you informed your shooting organisation regarding this matter? As you correctly point out; this is neither a legal requirement nor indeed in HO guidelines. BASC have said that they should be informed if licensing authorities are requesting it, but despite being informed on numerous occassions the request still exists. I can only assume that our shooting organisations are making no progress with matters? Edited March 21, 2014 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogcal Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Scully, all the shooting organisations can do is object and hope that something gets done about it through negotiation but from what I was told today nothing will change until a ruling is made in a court and that will only happen when someone, somewhere mounts a challenge. Far be it from me to say but with the combined funds available from all the shooting organisations it wouldn't be difficult to mount a challenge using just one member as a test case and once precedent is set then the Forces following the guidelines would have to stop doing so but I'm sure some or all of the Forces concerned would mount a joint appeal which could go either way. The bottom line is that the cabinet minister responsible at the Home Office should be issuing instructions based on current legislation requiring all the Forces to follow it but the matter has most probably become a political football which none of the politicians involved wants to touch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 they dont want to give us guns, do they just give it time, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleFieldRelics Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Dorset contacted my doctor on my last renewal 2 weeks ago. I was told at the end of my interview with the FEO that everything was fine as long as my DR didnt raise any concerns. Its standard practice here rightly or wrongly. However what it does do is make the owner of firearms realise that they can no longer confide in their DR (should they need help) if they want to keep their guns. Edited March 21, 2014 by BattleFieldRelics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I have just renewed,gave Drs email address as requested,have no idea if they were contacted,but certainly no invoice raised by Police/Doctors surgery. If they do decide to contact Doctor by letter though and there is a cost associated I do not see who else should bare that cost other than me?Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Dorset contacted my doctor on my last renewal 2 weeks ago. I was told at the end of my interview with the FEO that everything was fine as long as my DR didnt raise any concerns. Its standard practice here rightly or wrongly. However what it does do is make the owner of firearms realise that they can no longer confide in their DR (should they need help) if they want to keep their guns. Contacting an applicants GP isn't the issue. Having the applicant contact their GP for a report and then insisting the applicant pays for it, is. I have just renewed,gave Drs email address as requested,have no idea if they were contacted,but certainly no invoice raised by Police/Doctors surgery. If they do decide to contact Doctor by letter though and there is a cost associated I do not see who else should bare that cost other than me?Am I missing something? The licensing authority bares the cost of contacting an applicants GP. It has always been thus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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