Steel shot, some help please

[mrmints]

To cut a long story short, I've been a bit stupid.

 

For the full story, I bought a Baikal Mp153 semi auto at the beginning of the year for my last trip (2nd ever!) out onto the marsh and planned to practice with it this year. After this trip, I put it in its slip and went to work. Having got it out to clean it at lunch time it was covered in rust! A lot of this came off, but some remained. I thought to myself that this isn't any good, so I decided to get the barrel cerakoted. It's come back today looking good, however all of the markings have vanished, including the pressure rating ( I completely forgot to photograph them in case this happened).

 

I can remember 90MPa and a fleur de lis but that's it. I wasn't overly worried, because its a 3.5" steel proofed gun, but having read a bit about steel shot on here and elsewhere, I have realised that 90MPa isn't actually that great. This is only 900bar, and according to the post "Steel Shot - what you need to know", to fire high performance steel, you need it to be proofed to a minimum of 1320bar.

 

Am I missing something, or will this gun never been any good for the fast steel loads I was hoping to use on it?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Chris

[fireboy]

hello mrmints if it has the fleur de lis stamp it will proofed 1320bar so any factory h.v steel will be fine the maual say you can shoot still shot

 

atb anthony

[dougall]

I would EXPECT any 3.5inch chambered gun to be magnum shell proofed.BUT check with Baikal website or gun-shop to be sure.

[Guest cookoff013]

I would EXPECT any 3.5inch chambered gun to be magnum shell proofed.BUT check with Baikal website or gun-shop to be sure.

 

so would i.

[pestcontrol1]

i will look on mine as i have one great guns i have put alsorts through mine from 21-66 gram

am on nights so i will look tomorrow as i am just setting off

[kent]

if it was a rusty as it sounds I should get it looked over by a competent gunsmith, its inconceivable to me that any firm should make a super magnum that wasn't fine with steel.

[mrmints]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I spoke to saddlery and gun room who have said much the same. It's the 90MPa that has thrown me. They recommended calling CIP to check.

 

The rust wasn't awful. It just had a coating in some bits that had got muddy. Enough for me to think it wouldn't be good enough long term out on the shore without protecting it.

[fireboy]

mrmints this might help

1MPa=10Barr=145PSI

90x145=13050PSI

13050 pound-force/square inch = 899.76582676 bar

here is a link to cip regs https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cip+regs+on+steel+proof&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=6EFJU7z5JKnY8gettIDwDw

the mp3 is very good wildfowling gun a lot of them used in the states and they dont have cip regs so can use a lot faster carts then us in the uk

Edited April 12, 2014 by fireboy

[Guest cookoff013]

its not the speed thats the issue, its the pressure.

 

3.5" should easily cope with american 3.5" 14000psi loads.

[fireboy]

if you are referring to my post cooff013 i know he was on about the pressure as i stated in my previous post i was just using about u.s carts as a example.

atb

anthony

Edited April 12, 2014 by fireboy

[pestcontrol1]

90 MPa MOB fleur-de-lis and what looks like a christmas tree in a circle then 06 think its year of manufacture

[mrmints]

It's not very clear really is it. As pestcontrol1 has shown, the barrel has the fleur-de-lis AND 90MPa (900Bar), which seems to me contradictory. How can a barrel be "high performance steel proof" (fleur-de-lis) and yet only pressure tested to 900 Bar? Throw in the 3.5" chamber and I'm extremely confused! I think I need to do some swatting up on this. Thanks for the links and advice.

 

Chris

[fireboy]

this is taken from the mp-153 manual

Notes on Shot Material and Chokes:
1) Shells using Bismuth or Tungsten-Matrix shot are subject to the same barrel
and choke tube limitations as lead shot. Shells using Tungsten-Iron shot or
Hevi-Shot are subject to the same barrel and choke tube limitations as steel
shot.
2) On fixed choke guns, shells loaded with steel, Tungsten-Iron or Hevi-Shot
should be fired only in IC or Cylinder barrels. DO NOT fire steel, Tungsten-
Iron or Hevi-Shot shells in fixed barrels with Modified, Improved Modified or
Full choke barrels. Lead, Bismuth and Tungsten-Matrix may be fired in all
fixed choke barrels.
3) On fixed choke guns, slugs may be fired in only IC and Cylinder barrels. DO
NOT fire slugs in fixed choke barrels with Modified, Improved Modified or Full
chokes.
so pritty sure its safe to use steel as it says in the manual

atb

anthony

[fireboy]

here is a review on mp153 that say it hv steel ok

 

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2011/09/shotgun-review-low-priced-baikal-mp-153-returns-us

[langlands]

I have the same gun and as I understand it, the Bar marked on the barrel is a working pressure and not a proof pressure.

The manufacuter seems reluctant to produce a system which will allow comparisons, or they dont care, maybe because the USA are a such a big market compared to us and they don't get too wound up about proofing on new guns.

For what its worth, I load steel to 1500fps and it works just fine.

[wymberley]

I have the same gun and as I understand it, the Bar marked on the barrel is a working pressure and not a proof pressure.

The manufacuter seems reluctant to produce a system which will allow comparisons, or they dont care, maybe because the USA are a such a big market compared to us and they don't get too wound up about proofing on new guns.

For what its worth, I load steel to 1500fps and it works just fine.

Yep, it'll be service pressure. All things being equal the proof pressure would be c120 MPa. This is clear of the 105 max service for HP steel but well short of the required 137 MPa proof. This means that you're running in the gun's proof pressure range should you use anything near the top end of the permissible service pressure for HP loads. Not wise. May just pay to speak with the importer/distributor.

[wymberley]

Bored out of my skull - at least the farmer has now finally been able to get the plough on the land so should be able to hit the rooks shortly after Easter - and have just read that all Baikal guns of 89mm bear the fleurs de lis. Would it make any sense that if all the guns over and above their 720 standard proof figure which are proofed at 900, then those of 89 are then also further proofed at 1050 to permit the HP steel proof symbol? All figures service pressure.