.22-250 powder

[Dougy]

All measured from ogive, same batch. Kent I think I'll have to disagree with your ideas regarding seating depth affecting group size's.

[Underdog]

All measured from ogive, same batch. Kent I think I'll have to disagree with your ideas regarding seating depth affecting group size's.

So that length is not over all length?

 

Seating depth does affect group size, there are sweet spots for the harmonics of a rifles barrel, seating depth is another way of influencing these harmonics.

 

Just like any other machine really, power is adjusted and other variables are adjusted to find the optimum !

 

U.

[Dougy]

So that length is not over all length?

 

Seating depth does affect group size, there are sweet spots for the harmonics of a rifles barrel, seating depth is another way of influencing these harmonics.

 

Just like any other machine really, power is adjusted and other variables are adjusted to find the optimum !

 

U.

Seating from ogive, im glad someone believes, for a moment I thought I was alone lol.

[kent]

Guys I can no longer buy into this theory with factory guns that are very generously cut to avoid people accidently jamming their rounds into the rifling. If its a fact can you answer why a 55 grn Nosler b/tip that will get nowhere near the rifling of of a .243 win when sat in the case shoots so well, (its like 1/4" away), yet shoots incredibly well? Also measure a few bullets base to ogive and you will find that there can be quite some difference even within a single box when dealing with hunting bullets not custom bench rest ones.

 

I once believed it but now I know were it is relevant and were it came from I file it elsewhere and no longer use it as a load tuning method in factory guns. I repeat myself but at 100 yards I fail to see how you can meaningfully separate a sweet group from a freak group with a 22-250 or the likes anyhow but there you go. All said and done gaining a consistent 1/4 MOA can be seen clearly at 400 yards yet looks like nothing at 100. Also at 100 bullet vertical spread from varying velocities is hardly meaningful when your using something pushing bullets at around 3700 fps. If you want to test a load get out some- its the only way! .22 lr should be 100 yard tested not super fast varmint centre fires

 

I will go one stage further now and say "harmonics" is an over used word in hunting rifles. If it was of real relevance and a load was particular to the gun in question producing "sweet harmonic vibrations" it could be darn hard to ever find good factory. Fact is good factory is expensive but fairly easy to find these days. About 3 years ago I posted on here about using some federal factory with a 70 grain Nosler B/Tip inmy .243 win while I had no facility to hand load during a house build, consistent 1/2" at the 200 yards zero, was I incredibly lucky? I don't think so because I bought the hornet after and as is my practice I bought some quality factory to test it with and harvest the brass (RWS 46 grn TMS) heck the gun was fine and didn't need to go back to the shop as it printed 1" at 200 yards, again was I plumb lucky?

 

Like I say I once believed it but it took a person with more experience than myself to prove I was wrong by shooting tiny little groups with a randomly filled .22 ppc case in his bench gun. if the rifle is stable in its bedding and fault free Harmonic performance tuning of a load for use at such short ranges in a hunting rifle is but a myth. it becomes relevant only in different circumstances at different ranges. Though you don't have to believe me from what I say - try it with the right attitude and you will also find it true

[Underdog]

Valid points Kent but again there are variables around the platforms you mention.

For instance, most heavy barrelled target guns by default have stiffer barrels, a benefit is that the barrels harmonics are less, dampened via their own mass.

 

A free floating barrel can be troublesome to find the sweet spot in a sporter weight yes but once found less will trouble it like any stock movement etc. Heat will bend it if the bore is not concentric or if it has not been stress relieved perfectly.

 

A bedded barrel or one with a pressure point can shoot as good, it works by lessening the barrel harmonics! I had one and in fact my Winchester 94's have barrel bands and although would not win any prizes get the job done.

 

I too have had good loads from bullets sat well back, there are no rules. Just scores of variables.

 

U.

[Redgum]

Yes that's a problem, its amazing how soon you settle on loads when you have been at it a while. all that testing is fun but costs in components and barrel wear

 

It hurts to be agreeing with you so often kent I spent a lot of time, and money ( enjoyable as it is) reloading for my first 243, powders, bullets, seating depths, case prep etc but mostly I was learning to shoot at longer ranges than developing a load. Yes, rifles are as individual as women but we can over complicate issues. My advice is to look at your reloading manual and see whats at the top of the list powder wise for the bullet you are going to use, pick a powder near the top that you can get easily, for me it was viht as available. You may want to use one powder to load several weights, this info should be in the manual but always try to make sure you are filling the cases well.

For the last few years I have stuck to two loads for the 243 and one for the 308, good dependable loads that I know if I'm off zero or groups opening up its me, scope or rifle.( but usually me).

[dukeboy]

the 40gr blitzkings were a lot more accurate in my rifle than the 55gr v-max

[henry931]

the 40gr blitzkings were a lot more accurate in my rifle than the 55gr v-max

 

 

If your .22-250 is the standard 1 in 14" twist that doesn't surprise me.

 

The 55gr V-Max is relatively long due to its plastic tip and is very borderline regarding stability in a 14" twist.

 

Some people say it works well for them...

In a friends tikka they went sideways...

 

I think it's down to the limited accuracy regarding manufacturers quote of the true twist rate. E.g they say it's 14" but actually its 13.5" or 14.5".

[dukeboy]

I was surprised how bad the 55's actually were! They were all over the place

[kent]

Valid points Kent but again there are variables around the platforms you mention.

For instance, most heavy barrelled target guns by default have stiffer barrels, a benefit is that the barrels harmonics are less, dampened via their own mass.

 

A free floating barrel can be troublesome to find the sweet spot in a sporter weight yes but once found less will trouble it like any stock movement etc. Heat will bend it if the bore is not concentric or if it has not been stress relieved perfectly.

 

A bedded barrel or one with a pressure point can shoot as good, it works by lessening the barrel harmonics! I had one and in fact my Winchester 94's have barrel bands and although would not win any prizes get the job done.

 

I too have had good loads from bullets sat well back, there are no rules. Just scores of variables.

 

U.

 

Unsure of your clear point here. I don't mean harmonics don't matter, just the effect of tuning the harmonics via load adjustment is over rated most don't even shoot good enough to find the nodes. Consider in an un-bedded rifle the harmonics and contact points might well be changing shot to shot. Fine tuning the harmonics in a good well bedded rifle? Fact remains that take real quality loads and put them into a quality gun they transfer very well in deed!