telf Posted April 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Ok telf ime in derbyshire if u were in my neck of the woods any time you could have ad a shot wi my rifle then you would no first hand what they were like noise wise ect cheers mate,thanks for the offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 i got a load from Weldon Gun room not that long ago bit of a drive from Gateshead, take your missus for lunch at The Anglers Arms and bring your FAC!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted April 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 phoned them today,not open till wednesday,will try then,also phoned edgar bros,the main importer for hornady ammo who said,they had 1000 in stock and had an order in for another 5000 but didnt know when they would get it in,i said that 1000 didnt seem many at all and even 5000 didnt seem many for the whole of the uk,and when i asked how many hmr they had in to compare the 2,their answer,over 1,000000,but they would not give me or did not know the answer as to whether it was getting phased out i then sent hornady an e-mail,to which their reply was they are producing ammo including that calibre as fast as they can,and please to be patient,but again did not answer the question as to whether they will keep producing it,so have sent them another e-mail asking for a yes or no answer to the question,awaiting response,we shall see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted April 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 received reply from hornady which said,- we have no plans to stop producing mach 2 ammo,we are still seeing considerable demand as it is important to us as it is a calibre we introduced i now feel a bit better about buying a gun in this calibre,although i will have to make sure i can get the ammo first, and as they say, "you pays your money you takes your chance" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Glad someone else had the sense to email..honestly think some folk rant on the mach 2 and neither have tried it or found out about the ammo before they start typing...every calibre has its use even if everyone does nt see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted April 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 what moderator have you on yours,is a sak any good or something a bit better required Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I use a sak..i want dm80 to make me a smaller mod as i feel his mod is too big for my cz american with 20 odd" barrel..sak is fine tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salizar Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Just paid £76.00 for 500 rounds, if purchased 50 at a time they are priced at £8.99 link to article on mach2 ammo http://www.rrdvegas.com/17-mach-ii.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 just read that and am now more confused than i was before,i still fancy getting the calibre and have found a couple of places that seem fairly confident on being able to get hold of it and like i said it would be the quad i would get so could always change the barrel if needed the more i read and look into the calibre the more i cant understand why it never took off,it seems to me to have everything the hmr has with possibly just a little less oomf,but perfectly capable of knocking bunnies over out to 150 yds with a tad of holdover if required Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 If you take what the mach can do and what a .22 Hornet can do its brings into question the HMR's viability (to any who will home load the hornet). As for its discontinuation I should check with the guys on Rimfirecentral forum on that one, uk gunsmiths can be a less than reliable source of info on such matters The way I see it on paper is the mach does the flat shooting to 100 yards thing the same as the HMR and the more powerful hmr starts to get unpredictable the more you get past that mark on wind and terminals. The HMR never reached it promise of a truly viable 200 yard gun :lol: Or put another way, taking into account what you suggest a .22lr can do, and I know a HMR can do it makes you wonder why the Mach2 was ever released? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Hi all just recently got a mach two myself i too asked the same questions on here and got some very good advise an some not so good but in the end i liked what i had read on the net and that so i managed to get myself a marlin 917 vls secondhand in mint condition stuck a sak mod on it and it also came with 500 rounds of eley ammo and ime more than impressed with it not as noisy as the hmr flat to a hundred yrd an can do one hole groups at 75 yards no problem ive only been out with it twice as not had it long but both times out with it it has downed my chosen quarry with ease the ammo is around a five to eight pounds for fifty i no a place that has thousands of rounds in stock as i contacted ammo supplyers before i bought the rifle so no worrys there ammo wise bought mine for shooting corvids with will b out more through the summer at them as at the mo am buisy with the foxes with the 22.250 cf due to the start of the lambing on my farms up in the hills my advice on the mach two is get one ime glad i did good little round that in my opinion does what it says on the tin cheers and hope this helps I am confident that Eley no longer produce .17Mach2 ammo, so when yours and any stock at RFD's have gone that it from them. My understanding is that simply leaves CCI as the world manufacturer (hornady/rem/federal/whoever else are CCI made and branded) I will happily stand corrected if someone can point me at another independent manufacturer. Good luck to anyone who finds a use for the Mach 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 :lol: Or put another way, taking into account what you suggest a .22lr can do, and I know a HMR can do it makes you wonder why the Mach2 was ever released? Because its more gun over here than the varmints it was designed for. its full of issues, the ammo is incredibly inconsistent and has been the cause of many rifles being scrapped/repaired/rebuilt under warranty Eley never did produce Mach2 ammo, AFAIK they sold it under licence from CCI who as you point out make (or made until recently) ALL M2/HMR ammo and if (as unlikely as it seems) all the ammo does dry up then I get the barrel rechambered to .17 Super Magnum!!... people have been talking about the demise of this round for years......still talking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Because its more gun over here than the varmints it was designed for. its full of issues, the ammo is incredibly inconsistent and has been the cause of many rifles being scrapped/repaired/rebuilt under warranty Eley never did produce Mach2 ammo, AFAIK they sold it under licence from CCI who as you point out make (or made until recently) ALL M2/HMR ammo and if (as unlikely as it seems) all the ammo does dry up then I get the barrel rechambered to .17 Super Magnum!!... people have been talking about the demise of this round for years......still talking unfortunately the .17 super magnum requires a centre fire strength action in line with its increased pressure and real doubt exists about if it also has a future through over pressure issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Because its more gun over here than the varmints it was designed for. its full of issues, the ammo is incredibly inconsistent and has been the cause of many rifles being scrapped/repaired/rebuilt under warranty Eley never did produce Mach2 ammo, AFAIK they sold it under licence from CCI who as you point out make (or made until recently) ALL M2/HMR ammo and if (as unlikely as it seems) all the ammo does dry up then I get the barrel rechambered to .17 Super Magnum!!... people have been talking about the demise of this round for years......still talking I make no argument that HMR has had issues and semis are no longer made, but you are getting a bit carried away, it is not full of issues and is not incredibly inconsistent and has not been the cause of MANY rifles being scrapped/repaired/rebuilt. Some of all of the above for sure! I am very happy for the 6-10 people who still own and find a use for a HM2 in the UK, I note the rest (another half dozen) are for sale on Guntrader etc. The HM2 became available a couple of years after the HMR and has NEVER taken off, talk of its demise is premature, we are still waiting for it to arrive ...I believe I am correct in saying, of the entire range of CZ 455 only one model is offered in .17HM2. The HM2 was stillborn! Edited May 2, 2014 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 I make no argument that HMR has had issues and semis are no longer made, but you are getting a bit carried away, it is not full of issues and is not incredibly inconsistent and has not been the cause of MANY rifles being scrapped/repaired/rebuilt. Some of all of the above for sure! well I know of 11 cases of actions/magwells.bolts being damaged by either wholesale case separation or squib followed by live rounds mainly because I started collating info on them can't say I know 11 people who have blown up their centrefire and I have been shooting them a lot longer than the 17rfs not complaining, the fewer people use the 17M2 better IMO more cheap (and rapidly diminishing ammo) for the rest of us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) well I know of 11 cases of actions/magwells.bolts being damaged by either wholesale case separation or squib followed by live rounds mainly because I started collating info on them can't say I know 11 people who have blown up their centrefire and I have been shooting them a lot longer than the 17rfs not complaining, the fewer people use the 17M2 better IMO more cheap (and rapidly diminishing ammo) for the rest of us! Do you write for the Rag Tops, you use the same emotive language...show me ONE "blown up" HMR rifle! Ammo damage has caused a bit of bolt/magazine damage etc, I am not familier with a single blown up gun or a single injury, a quick look round the web will show you many blown up centrefires, and in some cases very nasty injuries, by all means point me in the direction of a blown up HMR. I am not for one second defending the HMR, it most certainly has AMMO issues, and that is not clever on any level, but lets keep it in perspective! Personally I have had no misfires or squib loads in the HMR (I accept they happen) whereas I have had several with .22lr! Let me also make it very clear I am happy for you and anyone else who wants, or finds a use for the HM2, the vast majority of the world doesn't, but every calibre has a use, in some cases very limited, simple as! Edited May 3, 2014 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salizar Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 Long live Mach2 I use one. I have no use for a HMR, (notice there is plenty for sale) but I`m sure it is a useful calibre in some circumstances, just not for me. Some of us do not need the extra expense, noise or range of the HMR ammunition end of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 Do you write for the Rag Tops, you use the same emotive language...show me ONE "blown up" HMR rifle! Ammo damage has caused a bit of bolt/magazine damage etc, I am not familier with a single blown up gun or a single injury, a quick look round the web will show you many blown up centrefires, and in some cases very nasty injuries, by all means point me in the direction of a blown up HMR. I am not for one second defending the HMR, it most certainly has AMMO issues, and that is not clever on any level, but lets keep it in perspective! Personally I have had no misfires or squib loads in the HMR (I accept they happen) whereas I have had several with .22lr! Let me also make it very clear I am happy for you and anyone else who wants, or finds a use for the HM2, the vast majority of the world doesn't, but every calibre has a use, in some cases very limited, simple as! there are lots of centrefire failures on the web. 99% if not 100% of them are user/operator/reloader error but I said "know". I don't know anyone who has had a rifle/ammo failure with a centrefire. not one. i shoot in three ranges covering a 700 radius and have been shooting centrefire for 25 years... As for "blow up"...am sorry if that is too graphic but when a magazine explodes in the mag well and shatters/bends due to a detonation of a firearm cartridge..... I would say "blow up" is appropriate 30 seconds research shows the volume of damaged rifles and potentially injured shooters who through no fault of their own have been sold dangerous ammo some are squibs and poor follow up procedure, some are just case failure "He was out sighting in his CZ American using Hornady ammo and suffered a barrel blockage, result was a badly twisted bolt and a 2" piece of the stock from behind the bolt shattered off, so another ruined .17 HMR. Very luckily he was unhurt." "Got a squib round that blocked the barrel, next round blew up in the chamber ejecting all the pressure through the mag well which was cupped in my hand! Luckily no secondary detonation involved but it damaged the next 2 or 3 in the mag which had disintegrated. Ammo manufacturer was sympathetic and offered to replace mag and gift a free brick of ammo until they realised I was in the UK. Then it all went dead Had head in barrel knocked back and then business as usual, no damage to rifle other than mag (£35) and some sore fingers (luckily all still there)" "Same thing happen to me back in November. I was out shooting rabbits,and had taken 3 or 4 shots on the 5th one nothing happened I just heard the firing pin fall. I ejected the round or so I thought and chambered another one Upon firing there was a bang a flash the mag flew out. " I was zeroing a new scope on my CZ455 Hmr last night when I had what I can only describe as a round explode in the chamber. "I was using up some 1 year old 20gn Winchester hollow point ammo that I don't usually use just to get a rough zero. I chambered the round, closed the bolt and squeezed off the round only to have an ear splitting BANG ( think a 12g x3 times!) I pooped myself thinking the barrel had exploded but once I'd calmed down I checked the gun. The bolt was still closed shut. The magazine had been exploded from the rifle into the plastic bench I was shooting off and was in about a dozen pieces! I slowly opened the bolt. The rear rim off the ammo case dropped out like a small disc with a section missing. The case was jammed in the chamber but the bullet had ejected and the barrel was clear??!?!" "Whilst out with a fellow keeper on the foxes my mate fired his rifle and there was a very loud report (like a .243 with no Mod!!) and a flash, my mate dropped the rifle like it had bitten him, the mag had blown off and was bent, the bolt was half way up. After checking he was ok I checked the rifle and it appears the bullet is still in the barrel. I have checked the rest of the box of federal premium v shok rounds and have found 4 with cracks down the neck of the cartridge, would this be the cause of the miss fire and damage to the rifle?" I could go on. Don't get me wrong I have an HMR and occasionally use it...but don't tell me there isn't a problem or worse that "its not as serious as I made out" just because you haven't experienced it or know anyone who has experienced it first hand. does someone have to lose an eye or a finger before the issues are rectified? Am sure if the HM2 was more popular there would be a corresponding increase in ammo issues......but they aren't and there isn't but we are slightly off topic here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) there are lots of centrefire failures on the web. 99% if not 100% of them are user/operator/reloader error but I said "know". I don't know anyone who has had a rifle/ammo failure with a centrefire. not one. i shoot in three ranges covering a 700 radius and have been shooting centrefire for 25 years... :lol: I don't "know" anyone who has had a HMR issue, so that means they don't exist and the HMR is fine by your logic! As for "blow up"...am sorry if that is too graphic but when a magazine explodes in the mag well and shatters/bends due to a detonation of a firearm cartridge..... I would say "blow up" is appropriate I would say you read too many Rag Tops, a blown up magazine is NOT a blown up HMR!! 30 seconds research shows the volume of damaged rifles and potentially injured shooters that is NOT blown up HMR and injured shooters who through no fault of their own have been sold dangerous ammo some are squibs and poor follow up procedure, some are just case failure "He was out sighting in his CZ American using Hornady ammo and suffered a barrel blockage, result was a badly twisted bolt and a 2" piece of the stock from behind the bolt shattered off, so another ruined .17 HMR. Very luckily he was unhurt." "Got a squib round that blocked the barrel, next round blew up in the chamber ejecting all the pressure through the mag well which was cupped in my hand! Luckily no secondary detonation involved but it damaged the next 2 or 3 in the mag which had disintegrated. Ammo manufacturer was sympathetic and offered to replace mag and gift a free brick of ammo until they realised I was in the UK. Then it all went dead Had head in barrel knocked back and then business as usual, no damage to rifle other than mag (£35) and some sore fingers (luckily all still there)" "Same thing happen to me back in November. I was out shooting rabbits,and had taken 3 or 4 shots on the 5th one nothing happened I just heard the firing pin fall. I ejected the round or so I thought and chambered another one Upon firing there was a bang a flash the mag flew out. " I was zeroing a new scope on my CZ455 Hmr last night when I had what I can only describe as a round explode in the chamber. "I was using up some 1 year old 20gn Winchester hollow point ammo that I don't usually use just to get a rough zero. I chambered the round, closed the bolt and squeezed off the round only to have an ear splitting BANG ( think a 12g x3 times!) I pooped myself thinking the barrel had exploded but once I'd calmed down I checked the gun. The bolt was still closed shut. The magazine had been exploded from the rifle into the plastic bench I was shooting off and was in about a dozen pieces! I slowly opened the bolt. The rear rim off the ammo case dropped out like a small disc with a section missing. The case was jammed in the chamber but the bullet had ejected and the barrel was clear??!?!" "Whilst out with a fellow keeper on the foxes my mate fired his rifle and there was a very loud report (like a .243 with no Mod!!) and a flash, my mate dropped the rifle like it had bitten him, the mag had blown off and was bent, the bolt was half way up. After checking he was ok I checked the rifle and it appears the bullet is still in the barrel. I have checked the rest of the box of federal premium v shok rounds and have found 4 with cracks down the neck of the cartridge, would this be the cause of the miss fire and damage to the rifle?" I could go on. Don't get me wrong I have an HMR and occasionally use it...but don't tell me there isn't a problem or worse that "its not as serious as I made out" just because you haven't experienced it or know anyone who has experienced it first hand. Read my post, I didn't say that! does someone have to lose an eye or a finger before the issues are rectified? The ammo issue will never be rectified with technology as it stands! Am sure if the HM2 was more popular there would be a corresponding increase in ammo issues......but they aren't and there isn't but we are slightly off topic here..... Like I said, do you write for the rag tops, please read my posts, particularly #41. You have not shown a single injury or blown up gun, you have only confirmed the type of damage I mentioned! Edited May 5, 2014 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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