Canada's and the GL

[birdsallpl]

I completely agree and support Kent's moral code for sporting shooting. I think he is a credit to the shooting fraternity. There is a great deal of tradition involved in our sport, unquestioning respect for our Quarry being one of them. As a young sporting shot I would not have dreamt of shooting a bird sitting in tree or on the ground. If it wasn't flying it wasn't fair game. Same goes for rabbits and hares if not bolting they were not shot at. This was a long time before any general license or even the 1981 wildlife act. However times change for the good or bad. Now crop protection is a huge activity for many of us that enjoy being out in the fields. I have adapted my Own moral codes over the years. For many years I had the principle that I would only shoot what I will eat. I don't enjoy shooting Corvids even today but I do. I have to take the rough with the smooth. What we do under a general license should not affect what we believe to be the correct code of conduct for sporting shooting. Some people may be confused with this and see it as double standards. I don't, it is very clear for me. From my experience within the locality where we operate I fully endorse Canada geese being on the GL they can be a pest but should only be shot responsibly. But as far as Greys and Mallards going on the GL beggars belief. It may be different in other places.

[kent]

I don't want to sound holier than thou, because I have also acted poorly in years past, but thanks for the words

[Scully]

You see we are poles apart because even though I don't shoot a lot of pheasant with shotgun I see shooting them with rifles very morally wrong, they are not given any" Law or sport" in the view of this particular "sportsman".

There seems to be many phrases that are lost on you

We aren't poles apart at all. I, like you, have my own moral codes but I don't preach them to others. Also like you, I am not trigger happy as you imply, and if you had chosen to take on board my other posts you would see this; 'none so blind as those who etc etc' .

Also, like you, I shoot for the enjoyment.

The ONLY diference between you and me, whether you like it or not, is I live in the real world and can tell the difference between what you call 'sport' (which is killing for your own pleasure, even if it's only for the table, by the way, just in case the fact escaped you) and pest control. I have no qualms regards killing for the table; but you can dress it up as 'sport' if it justifies the act for you. I also have no qualms regards killing for pest control; it's a dirty job and obviously not everyone is cut out for it, but it's ALWAYS at the landowners request, not mine. As I've already said, I don't need to go looking for shooting.

You and me both kill birds because we like shooting; not poles apart at all. If you're not enjoying yourself, then stop doing it, then maybe you will be justified in telling others to stop doing it. It really is that simple.

[Guest stevo]

sorry if im completely missing the point here , im not a wildfowler , I have NEVER shot a duck ,goose or any water foul in all my years of shooting , so please don't jump on me for asking what could very well turn out to be a really dumb question but ..........

 

if there in that much of a decline why shoot them at all ??

 

I always thought and believe shooting and conservation go go hand in hand , so im a bit miffed as to why there shot at all ?

 

stevo

[birdsallpl]

Stevo. Wildfowel in general are not in the decline. In fact some species have grown in numbers. It is these birds that have increased that are in debate. Some of us still think they should have protection as before. Others think to put them on a General licence is acceptable. To generalise that is the debate.

Hope that helps

[Guest stevo]

thanks for that , I think I will just sit back and watch how this unfolds , as I said I know NOTHING about wild fouling and I wont pretend otherwise , however its interesting reading both sides , so crack on lads ! I may even learn something new .

 

stevo

[CharlieT]

sorry if im completely missing the point here , im not a wildfowler , I have NEVER shot a duck ,goose or any water foul in all my years of shooting , so please don't jump on me for asking what could very well turn out to be a really dumb question but ..........

 

if there in that much of a decline why shoot them at all ??

 

I always thought and believe shooting and conservation go go hand in hand , so im a bit miffed as to why there shot at all ?

 

stevo

 

As this thread relates to Canada geese and the GL, I will answer your question in that context.

 

Canada geese in the UK are basically feral, they are the descendents of private collections. Figures show that when I was a boy in the 1950's the entire UK flock amounted to some 2000 birds. The latest published figures estimate todays flock to be some 80,000 birds.

 

They tend to live inland on reservoirs, lakes and rivers rather than the coastal marshes favored by winter migrants of other goose species.

 

To give you even more of a rounded view on the topic you may find this publication from NE interesting.....TIN009 edition 4

[Guest stevo]

 

As this thread relates to Canada geese and the GL, I will answer your question in that context.

 

Canada geese in the UK are basically feral, they are the descendents of private collections. Figures show that when I was a boy in the 1950's the entire UK flock amounted to some 2000 birds. The latest published figures estimate todays flock to be some 80,000 birds.

 

They tend to live inland on reservoirs, lakes and rivers rather than the coastal marshes favored by winter migrants of other goose species.

 

To give you even more of a rounded view on the topic you may find this publication from NE interesting.....TIN009 edition 4

thank you , appreciate that , also the link , gonna make myself a brew and sit and have a good read .

 

once again thank you

 

stevo

[kent]

 

As this thread relates to Canada geese and the GL, I will answer your question in that context.

 

Canada geese in the UK are basically feral, they are the descendents of private collections. Figures show that when I was a boy in the 1950's the entire UK flock amounted to some 2000 birds. The latest published figures estimate todays flock to be some 80,000 birds.

 

They tend to live inland on reservoirs, lakes and rivers rather than the coastal marshes favored by winter migrants of other goose species.

 

To give you even more of a rounded view on the topic you may find this publication from NE interesting.....TIN009 edition 4

 

I might point out that it has errors like Sunday shooting which is legal in many counties of England.

[Guest stevo]

 

I might point out that it has errors like Sunday shooting which is legal in many counties of England.

Cheers kent . I did wonder about that and that was going to be my next question . Makes some good reading

 

 

Stevo

[CharlieT]

 

I might point out that it has errors like Sunday shooting which is legal in many counties of England.

 

Very helpful, thank you kent.

[Penelope]

The increase in gravel extraction following the war and onwards and the subsequent pits left following the extraction has provided the habitat for the increase in the UK Canada goose population.

 

 

As this thread relates to Canada geese and the GL, I will answer your question in that context.

 

Canada geese in the UK are basically feral, they are the descendents of private collections. Figures show that when I was a boy in the 1950's the entire UK flock amounted to some 2000 birds. The latest published figures estimate todays flock to be some 80,000 birds.

 

They tend to live inland on reservoirs, lakes and rivers rather than the coastal marshes favored by winter migrants of other goose species.

 

To give you even more of a rounded view on the topic you may find this publication from NE interesting.....TIN009 edition 4

[mudpatten]

One of my concerns with the desire to exterminate the canada in the u.k. is that, every year with climate change affecting migration routes and breeding distribution of arctic/northern nesting species, we get more and more truly wild canadas turning up in the U.K.

[birdsallpl]

One of my concerns with the desire to exterminate the canada in the u.k. is that, every year with climate change affecting migration routes and breeding distribution of arctic/northern nesting species, we get more and more truly wild canadas turning up in the U.K.

Is there any evidence of this? I didn't think they moved about much at all over here. In saying this I was amazed to see a large flock up by Fort William on a field last year. Hadn't realised they had moved that far north. I have never seen any on the foreshore when shooting in Scotland.

Edited May 2, 2014 by birdsallpl

[Penelope]

Shot a couple a few years ago along the Tay near Dunkeld.

 

Is there any evidence of this? I didn't think they moved about much at all over here. In saying this I was amazed to see a large flock up by Fort William on a field last year. Hadn't realised they had moved that far north. I have never seen any on the foreshore when shooting in Scotland.

[birdsallpl]

Penelope. Do you think it more likely they are just expanding their existing territories within the UK. I have no knowledge of any migrating into the UK from Northern Europe. Do you know if they even exist there in any numbers.

[kent]

The increase in gravel extraction following the war and onwards and the subsequent pits left following the extraction has provided the habitat for the increase in the UK Canada goose population.

 

 

Yes also the hole in the ground fisheries, nature reserves and reservoir building program with the human population boom. Its a classic "build it and they will come" As history shows us to really increase or decrease any creature you have to improve or destroy its habitat. The Otter and its return after the rivers got clean again post clean up and the deer and how its population increase directly tracks the planting of forestry following the war

[kent]

One of my concerns with the desire to exterminate the canada in the u.k. is that, every year with climate change affecting migration routes and breeding distribution of arctic/northern nesting species, we get more and more truly wild canadas turning up in the U.K.

 

Now although I know we do get a few snow geese blown off course I am totally unaware of any migrating Canada. Are you talking birds from mainland Europe? The North American Route seems just a tad to far unless its the odd few from storms

[Penelope]

Yes I do.

 

I would think that any wild Canadas that come over as vagrants from the North American continent would do so from the far eastern edge of their range and get mixed up with Greenland Whitefronts and Pinks.

 

Penelope. Do you think it more likely they are just expanding their existing territories within the UK. I have no knowledge of any migrating into the UK from Northern Europe. Do you know if they even exist there in any numbers.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Penelope

[birdsallpl]

Just found this on line.

 

Canada Geese have reached northern Europe naturally, as has been proved by ringing recoveries. The birds include those of the subspecies parvipes, and possibly others. Canada Geese are also found naturally on the Kamchatka Peninsula in eastern Siberia, eastern China, and throughout Japan.[citation needed]

 

Canada Geese have also been introduced in Europe, and have established populations in Great Britain, Ireland, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Scandinavia, and Finland. Most European populations are non-migratory, but those in more northerly parts of Sweden and Finland migrate to the North Sea and Baltic coasts.

[birdsallpl]

One of my concerns with the desire to exterminate the canada in the u.k. is that, every year with climate change affecting migration routes and breeding distribution of arctic/northern nesting species, we get more and more truly wild canadas turning up in the U.K.

Thanks Mudpatten. You have opened up a complete new line of thought for me. This is why I really like this forum. I learn something every day

[mudpatten]

Similar changes are happening with other species, either that or we`re looking harder at the birds already here.

 

Once upon a time the Pacific Brant was considered to be a rare vagrant to Europe. Now they are found frequently amongst the flocks of brent overwintering around our coast.

 

In some parts of north America, fowlers now make a point of shooting the European widgeon, which is still something of a novelty, but is a bird which simply did not occur there there until comparatively recently.

 

Nature is constantly, and literally,evolving all the time.

 

It does seem a little short sighted to me to want to wipe out a bird that is increasingly finding it`s own way here.

 

Curiously, that desire for extermination comes from the Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust, and to a lesser extent, the RSPB.

[birdsallpl]

Mudpatten. Do you know if any ringed Canada's from Northern Europe have visited the UK and where and when. I did think it strange when I saw the bunch at Fort William. I walked towards the field to take a photo and before I got within a few hundred yards they were away. Completely different to the local birds I see in the midlands

[kent]

I have a fish and game Canada ring here from the states. It was actually sent by Coyotemaster though I know some snows get blown here but I should like to see some see any real numbers of any of the migrant geese from there, I suppose its natures own survival plan to offset the stupid actions of humans

[birdsallpl]

Kent, I think what we are now understanding ( me anyway) is that populations of Canada's that had been introduced to Northern Europe about the same time as they were introduced into the UK, have become truly wild and are now probably migrating in the winter to the UK. I did not even consider this possibility until now.