what banner do the brits shoot under

[the last engineer]

thought I'd show my ugly mug for a change, been a while since I was last on here.

 

so we are going through a few changes here in Canada regarding Sporting Clays and I thought I'd ask you guys a few questions regarding, who or what Org'n you shoot under, or for, how the scoring and class system works, and is working for you individually. eg. are you happy with your ranking, ability to improve and move up, chances of actually competing and winning something other than a key-ring.

 

here in Alberta I shoot under the "ASCA" Alberta Sporting Clays ***'n the last few years have seen a new Org'n "CNSCA" Canadian sporting clays ***'n, this I shoot under Nationally, but when going to the States I shoot under "NSCA" National blah blah you get the picture.

 

now I shoot Master here in Canada and A-A in the states, a little confusing for sure, but with enough punches I will go up to Master, that is if I carry concurrent punches through the year in time, if not a number of punches are confiscated and you start again...... not a happy camper but that is the rule.

 

so not having shot in the UK competitively what is the "norm" there does it all fall under CPSA or other associations,

how do they rank? shoot quality, facilities, score postings, fairness all round etc

how do you class ? happy with the scoring and levels ?

opportunity to improve and step up classes ?

do you compete Nationally?

is cost high for travel and entries ?

 

I am curious as to your thoughts and experiences, I know a number of you shoot very competitively, Cat being one I know well, so drop a line and air your thoughts please.

here there is a lot of friction regarding all three of the associations I have mentioned, especially where funding goes and who gets what and why.

this is the sort of friction that can eventually kill a club dead, just what the goody two shoes tree hugging community want right.

 

fire away guys, I'd love to hear your end.

 

regards

Martin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Breastman]

Knock yourself out!

 

https://www.cpsa.co.uk/

 

I don't shoot clays competitively (most people in this country don't) so don't have any of the experience you're after, sorry buddy

[Catamong]

Hi Martin,

 

Nice to see you back on the Forum..!

 

Quite a few questions to answer here, so here's my contribution.

 

Domestic disciplines are run and regulated by the CPSA, these include English Sporting, English Skeet, DTL, ABT, and a host of other minor disciplines.

 

International disciplines are run by the BICTSF, these include FITASC Sporting, Compak Sporting, OT, Olympic Skeet, UT, and again, a few others.

 

You don't pay an additional fee to enter BICTSF events, your CPSA membership allows you to enter, this can be done on the FITASC website, or direct with the BICTSF for most events held in the UK.

 

For domestic events, the quality of layouts, targets, entry fees and payouts can vary enormously from ground to ground, most 100 bird English Sporting events now charge around £38 for a 100 bird competition entry, over 12 stands.

 

They generally pay £150 HG, with classes AA, A, B & C class probably around £100 total per class, say £50, £30, 20, (if you're lucky), a lot of grounds use the smoke and mirrors trick and pay out as little as they can, however with the now widespread use of scores being available via the Internet, it's generally easier to find out who's won what, and vote with you feet if the ground owner consistently rips off the shooters.

 

As for funding of the sport here in the UK, not much trickles down to those fortunate enough to represent either England or Great Britain in their chosen discipline, it's virtually self funding, with only your entry fee paid and a small grant which would not generally even cover your airline flight costs.

 

It's very different in France, where Team members receive grants, proper funding and even paid time off work to practice..!!

 

Anyway, Philr is the real expert on this forum for International events, he has a wealth of experience, hopefully he'll be along shortly to add his contribution.

 

All the best for now,

 

Cat.

[the last engineer]

Cat, thanks for the reply, knew i could count on your response, still trying to work out the other guys post

 

"I don't shoot clays competitively (most people in this country don't) so don't have any of the experience you're after, sorry buddy"

so do you shoot non competitively ? the red bit i tend to disagree with you on. so what experience do you have ?

 

842k registered gun owners in the UK

25k registered CPSA Members, of which a good majority shoot targets of one discipline or another regularly in all class/level of competition be it a local event or county or national etc.

lets be fair, even the local farm shoot of 50 birds is a good enough reason to compete with your buddies for beer and bragging rights, don't tell me it aint so .

 

lots of views only two responses, one clear

 

do you still go against the big guys Cat ? or are you mainly a local guy now, just curious, i may have to travel up your way next time i'm home.

 

my business partner and good friend here has procured a nice 880 acre parcel to build a shooting range on, some beautiful landscape incorporating hill and valley, tree'd and open ground.

we hope to have the first sporting shoot later this fall, then progress into other disciplines, the long term goal is for an international attendance for the larger shoots held here in North America.

our seasons are short here so we need to make the most of every weekend available before the snow falls again, shooting in minus Celsius temps is not good for your health trust me.

 

would like to hear of others views, i dont care if its the first time out guys, your opinion matters seriously.

and i hope Philr responds too, look forward to reading any views.

thanks

 

Martin.

[HDAV]

There is also the WCTSA in Wales no idea how it works but I know you need to be in it to shoot for a welsh county or Wales at I ternational comps

[Bryn12]

OK you asked for first timers so here goes, I'm an ex smallbore shooter with a couple of caps, just taken up clays in the last couple of months and long term would very much like to shoot representative stuff again and add an SCTA badge to my SSRA one, have joined the SCTA which does the job in Scotland. No idea what the CPSA is like but have been impressed by the Admin at SCTA. In my admittedly limited experience 4 grounds and a couple of straw balers standards are highly variable my nearest ground, Auldgirth is over the hill and far away up a truly horrendous track and has some real snorters of sporting targets, however it has a couple of voice activated DTL set ups and a brand spanking skeet set-up. It has reg comps every weekend so I can train and compete at the same ground which for me is an unprecedented luxury.

[the last engineer]

good job Bryn, i wish you well in your quest, and thanks for the reply, i knew you guys would come out of the woodwork in time.

and the PW north south shoot must bring out the "TOP GUNS" for glory and the right to slag off the losers

 

Martin.

[Bryn12]

Unfortunately not able to make the PW shoot this year, next year I'll do my best to help raise money keep the southerners in their place.

[timps]

I used to shoot one CPSA registered shoot a week in sporting up and down the country and have done a fair few England selection and all the major national shoots but only ever shot in the UK.

 

The class system is based on your adjusted average any scores below 10% of the raw average are discarded. For the top shots the class system is not an issue but for us mere mortals in A class and below it is a sticky subject for some.

 

You have those that protect their averages by only shooting 1 ground they like then kick off when they shoot another ground and get a rubbish score. They claim the shoot is too hard, silly targets, I am an A class shooter and only got 50% when in reality they are not A class just a protected average shooter at one favourite ground.

 

The other complaint is sandbagging , people are convinced people shoot badly on purpose to stay in a low class so they can win money in that lower class. I was accused of that when I was on my way up from B class to A class, put in a big score at one shoot and accused of doing it for the money. Not really viable for normal registered shoot IMO, throwing shoots just so I could win £50 and it cost me more than that in entry fees and carts let alone travel costs so not the best money making scheme.

 

The prize money varies at registered shoots, you can enter the prize fund for an extra fee or just shoot the comp birds only and not win any money. The extremes I have won are £10 for a class win, £25 for high gun, nothing for 2nd and a good £45 for joint 3^rd .Because of this some grounds are now guaranteeing the prize money beforehand and it has increased the comp entries over birds only. For me paying to enter the prize fund and getting nothing for 2^nd really wound me up on a big entry and I stopped entering the prize fund as a matter of course for a while.

 

The facilities at the grounds range from beautiful log cabin club houses with great facilities to a field with a shack and portaloo.

The referees range from semi professionals who do a great job to kids who have not got a clue and are easily cajoled or bulled into putting whatever score or outcome the more unscrupulous shooter desires.

 

I will travel to the good well run shoots, the ones with numerous trap breakdowns or other issues that I used to grin and bear just to shoot a registered shoot that week no longer get my custom and I will do a non reg at a local shoot now instead.

[12boreblue]

We actually have 5 classes under the CPSA, C-B-A-AA-AAA, treble A being a virtual class used by the CPSA to determine the top shooters, when in reality no shoot puts on a AAA class as there would only be one or two entries. The system works well enough as a grading system can. The CPSA are currently considering setting up a national league, to wit I have voiced my reservations as no A class shooters were included. The CPSA are looking to recruit more members, but never seem to attempt to keep those that are already members, or offer them any form of incentive I know of. Personally I would prefer a handicap system, as from my own experience being in A or AA class is not all it should be, reason being, the score levels for clay shooting lately have increased. to win a B or A class nowadays requires a score of 89-90+, if you are in AA you shoot with the pros, so chances of winning anything diminish.

I would like to see something nationally or internationally like the Stapleford system used in golf. Every shooter given a handicap ranking and each trap rated to allow 'shots' within your handicap rating. but then that would need to be managed and agreed with all clubs members, casual shooters etc. Could you explain your system in more detail, how do the 'punches' you refer to relate to being a Master etc?

 

Regards