How old are these 12g Cartridges?

[silver pigeon69]

Can anyone give me an approx age of these 5 different carts please?

 

1st photo: Eley Grand Prix- paper case

 

2nd Photo: Collins Bros Ltd- plastic case, Load:1 1/8 Shot:4

Edited July 20, 2014 by silver pigeon69

[silver pigeon69]

3. Gamebore, Super game 32grm no 6 plastic case

 

4 & 5. Winchester, Trap 100 71/2 and Skeet 9

[la bala]

As a lad, i used to use the grand prix in the 60s.

[Floating Chamber]

The shot size near the crimp, I would say post 1962. The headstamp is more of an indicator. The 'new' headstamp, but still with 1B percussion cap (primer) with integral fixed battery cup. Pre Eley explosion; Italian made cases with 209 primers were imported as the factory was closed and production ceased for a while.

 

Gamebore, say late 1980s early 1990s.

 

Winchester compression formed, if primer is copper, say 1973/5

Edited July 20, 2014 by Floating Chamber

[silver pigeon69]

The shot size near the crimp, I would say post 1962. The headstamp is more of an indicator. The 'new' headstamp, but still with 1B percussion cap (primer) with integral fixed battery cup. Pre Eley explosion; Italian made cases with 209 primers were imported as the factory was closed and production ceased for a while.

 

Gamebore, say late 1980s early 1990s.

 

Winchester compression formed, if primer is copper, say 1973/5

when you say headstamp, what do you mean?

 

winchester pics:

[aga man]

The shot size near the crimp, I would say post 1962. The headstamp is more of an indicator. The 'new' headstamp, but still with 1B percussion cap (primer) with integral fixed battery cup. Pre Eley explosion; Italian made cases with 209 primers were imported as the factory was closed and production ceased for a while.

 

Gamebore, say late 1980s early 1990s.

 

Winchester compression formed, if primer is copper, say 1973/5

Spot on there i would say. I used a lot of them around that time. Brilliant shells ans still are today.

I would have thought the winchesters was from the eightys too, i seem to remember them.

[Floating Chamber]

The original Wincheser AAs that poured into Britain after the Tragic Eley explosion, were copper primers with 'Winchester Winchester ' on the head. Later, on, probably late 70s, they changed to the Win 209 primer and the Headstamp became 'W-W'. (Edit: However, I stii have empties with copper primers and 'W-W') see pic.

Remember, there was such a demand for these, they were loaded in Australia and Italy, too.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Floating Chamber

[aga man]

I don,t remember them at all. the aa trap and GB we had in the eightys had winchester winchester on the head.

 

Crimp was melted in the middle too.

Edited July 20, 2014 by aga man

[silver pigeon69]

The original Wincheser AAs that poured into Britain after the Tragic Eley explosion, were copper primers with 'Winchester Winchester ' on the head. Later, on, probably late 70s, they changed to the Win 209 primer and the Headstamp became 'W-W'. (Edit: However, I stii have empties with copper primers and 'W-W') see pic.

Remember, there was such a demand for these, they were loaded in Australia and Italy, too.

 

Thank you for the info.These Winchesters appear to have a Brass cap on the Trap 100 and a silver/stainless? cap on the other(see photos above)

Any idea on the Collins Bros?

I don,t remember them at all. the aa trap and GB we had in the eightys had winchester winchester on the head.

 

Crimp was melted in the middle too.

Both of these have Winchester Winchester on the heads and the crimps are melted in the middle. Thanks for your input.

Edited July 20, 2014 by silver pigeon69

[Floating Chamber]

6 point crimp Winchester AA, Top Mark and Blue Light were 'welded' at the centre of the crimp, because of a production fault that left a hole big enough to shed pellets.

The 8 point crimped AA were a better plastic altogether and had a neat crimp.

Some American Air Force blokes I shot with at Bentwaters in the early 1970s, claimed that they could reload the latter up to fifteen times; their recipe for Skeet was 'Sixteen grains of Red Dot and one and one eighth of lead'. (32gram)

How times have changed!

Edited July 20, 2014 by Floating Chamber

[silver pigeon69]

6 point crimp Winchester AA, Top Mark and Blue Light were 'welded' at the centre of the crimp, because of a production fault that left a hole big enough to shed pellets.

The 8 point crimped AA were a better plastic altogether and had a neat crimp.

Some American Air Force blokes I shot with at Bentwaters in the early 1970s, claimed that they could reload the latter up to fifteen times; their recipe for Skeet was 'Sixteen grains of Red Dot and one and one eighth of lead'. (32gram)

How times have changed!

These are 6 point crimp. You sir are an encyclopedia of knowledge!

Edited July 20, 2014 by silver pigeon69

[Floating Chamber]

No, Silver pigeon69, I am just old! Lol.

[Westley]

I remember reloading the 8 crimp Winchesters 6 to 8 times with 3 shot for Geese, I think I still have some somewhere. I used Tippex on the heads so I could see that they were 'heavies', in the dark under a moon.

I would agree completely with FC, I seem to recall that Eley were having cartridges loaded in France, after the explosion. The result was a terrible cartridge which very often left the wad part way up the barrel. Hence my home loading. The Gamebore Hi-Tech was another good reloading case too.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Westley

[silver pigeon69]

No, Silver pigeon69, I am just old! Lol.

i have found some info on another forum on the Collin Bros cartridges, that you may be able to elaborate on?

 

Tom Collins and his wife, Pat ran the shop and "The Southern Armoury Gun Club" and had monthly shoots at Bisley in Surrey. Dennis Fullwood helped in the shop just on Saturdays.

 

As for Lewis Collins ("The Profesionals" TV series), Tom was not related to him – just pure namesakes. The story is that there was a gun shop in East London with a similar business name that Tom hated with a vengeance. The feud went on for years and Tom went out of his way to promote his business as a “professional” gunsmith as opposed to the “cowboys” across the Thames. “Professionals” is the key word along with same surname and Lewis was invited to be photographed outside of Tom’s shop to which he obliged.

 

Amongst his diverse trade Tom was well known throughout the fairground business and done many repairs on their weapons and range equipment. I believe that it was Tom’s father who first started the business in Newington Butts – a stones throw from New Kent Road.

 

Sadly Tom suffered a fatal heart attack in the shop early in 1987 and is buried in I think West Norwood Cemetery. I’m sure Hiram Maxim is buried there too. Tom never got to retire to the house he had just purchased in Orpington, Kent. Pat, immediately after his death wound up the business and The Southern Armoury Gun Club, but the club renamed itself with the support of the N.RA. of Bisley and continued. Dennis, I believe has long since retired from his full time job and is now a microbiologist.

 

There is much to document Tom and his gun business, far too much for this forum. But his business certainly went back a long way and had many clients overseas.