First Attempt

[Cyrus1988]

Hi guys, just started out shotgun cartridge reloading so was hoping the P.W. collective could have a look at my crimps and see what you think? In the second picture I've tried to show the cartridge sometimes flares out after crimping, not sure if this will have an effect when trying to drop them into the chambers.

 

 

 

The cases are brand new 12G Cheddite 70mm with CX2000 primers, 1.50grams of SIPE powder, Aquila T2H24 wad and 32grams of #5.5 shot. Using a Lee Load All II. I weigh out every powder and shot drop for every cartridge to make sure it's spot on, if not I start again.

 

Cheers.

[sitsinhedges]

I've not used a Lee but on my reloaders I would be looking to wind the crimp punch on the final crimp station down a bit to create about 1.5mm depth of crimp. You're not too far away now you just need to fine tune it. Those who have used Lee Loadalls will know what to do as it's a much more basic system to the Mec etc

Edited September 30, 2014 by sitsinhedges

[Cyrus1988]

I've not used a Lee but on my reloaders I would be looking to wind the crimp punch on the final crimp station down a bit to create about 1.5mm depth of crimp. You're not too far away now you just need to fine tune it. Those who have used Lee Loadalls will know what to do as it's a much more basic system to the Mec etc

Thanks very much for the advice. I can go further down on the final crimp station but when I do the crimp starts to open up again once it's passed horizontal, the shot starts to become visible and I've had one so far where a pellet has managed to pass through the gap.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Cyrus1988

[Andy H]

One of the ways is to find a coin that fit,s inside the crimp of a factory cartridge and glue it onto the end of the final crimp punch to make it longer.

Also it sounds like you have to much room inside the case and maybe need an under shot spacer to give the press something to press against.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Andy H

[Cyrus1988]

One of the ways is to find a coin that fit,s inside the crimp of a factory cartridge and glue it onto the end of the final crimp punch to make it longer.

Also it sounds like you have to much room inside the case and maybe need an under shot spacer to give the press something to press against.

Cheers, I'll have a hunt around the house for one. I was a bit suspicious that there maybe a wee bit of room inside, will adding an under shot spacer effect the pressure massively?

[sitsinhedges]

Cheers, I'll have a hunt around the house for one. I was a bit suspicious that there maybe a wee bit of room inside, will adding an under shot spacer effect the pressure massively?

You should be using a recipe that fills the shell correctly but a H24 wad is usually for 28 grams of shot so seeing as you're using 32 too much space in the shell shouldn't be an issue. 32 gram wads are usually H21 height

[Cyrus1988]

You should be using a recipe that fills the shell correctly but a H24 wad is usually for 28 grams of shot so seeing as you're using 32 too much space in the shell shouldn't be an issue. 32 gram wads are usually H21 height

I am following the recipe I was given to the letter but I was wondering if it could be something I'm doing wrong with the Lee loader, operator error...

[sitsinhedges]

I am following the recipe I was given to the letter but I was wondering if it could be something I'm doing wrong with the Lee loader, operator error...

Out of curiosity who gave you the recipe?

[turbo33]

One of the ways is to find a coin that fit,s inside the crimp of a factory cartridge and glue it onto the end of the final crimp punch to make it longer.

Also it sounds like you have to much room inside the case and maybe need an under shot spacer to give the press something to press against.

 

Yup, with Andy on the too much space. I load fibre with my Lee, and will get the same as you have if I put too much pressure on the wad. Try loading the wad and shot by hand. Then pop it back on the lee making sure you go all the way to the stop on both the pre crimp and then the final crimp. You need to have about 12-15mm clearance from the top of the case to the level of shot.

Come back after you've tried the above.

[Cyrus1988]

 

Yup, with Andy on the too much space. I load fibre with my Lee, and will get the same as you have if I put too much pressure on the wad. Try loading the wad and shot by hand. Then pop it back on the lee making sure you go all the way to the stop on both the pre crimp and then the final crimp. You need to have about 12-15mm clearance from the top of the case to the level of shot.

Come back after you've tried the above.

Can't beat P.W. for some sound advice. Tried out your method and seems to look way better.

 

 

Thanks very much to everyone for all the advice, really appreciate it.

[rbrowning2]

You should be using a recipe that fills the shell correctly but a H24 wad is usually for 28 grams of shot so seeing as you're using 32 too much space in the shell shouldn't be an issue. 32 gram wads are usually H21 height

True for a bulky single base powder but SIPE is a double base powder and will occupy a lot less space in the case the a singed base powder like A1 so the h24 wad and 32gm may work.

 

Cyrus1988 I would try a GAEP spinner to tidy up the crimp.

 

It takes a bit of messing about before it all comes together nice.

[Cyrus1988]

True for a bulky single base powder but SIPE is a double base powder and will occupy a lot less space in the case the a singed base powder like A1 so the h24 wad and 32gm may work.

 

Cyrus1988 I would try a GAEP spinner to tidy up the crimp.

 

It takes a bit of messing about before it all comes together nice.

 

I've read a bit about the GAEP spinners, am I right in saying you need to use a drill to use them? I would prefer getting something a lot smaller, is a roll turnover machine any good for tidying up the crimp, I've seen a few old ones on ebay...

[rbrowning2]

You do need a small bench drill to rotate the GAEP spinner they are quick and simple to use and give a commercial cartridge finish.

Very much worth setting a system up you could loaded them on the lee then take them to a garage or shed to spin them if space is an issue in the house.

 

The old hand type are very slow and may have seen a lot of use or abuse during its life so I would suggest not worth trying.

[Cyrus1988]

Massive thanks to turbo33, just finished another one and it looks even better.

[Cyrus1988]

You do need a small bench drill to rotate the GAEP spinner they are quick and simple to use and give a commercial cartridge finish.

Very much worth setting a system up you could loaded them on the lee then take them to a garage or shed to spin them if space is an issue in the house.

 

The old hand type are very slow and may have seen a lot of use or abuse during its life so I would suggest not worth trying.

 

I'll definitely a look into it then, never thought I'd get so obsessed about how nice a crimp looks. To set this up would I just need the bench drill and the spinner?

 

Thanks very much for the info.

[rbrowning2]

The crimp is quite important to the performance of the cartridge and need so hold back the shot for a fraction of second to ensure the powder burns correctly you wont regret getting the crimp as close to a factory finish as you can.

 

For an auto it also helps ensure reliable feeding of the cartridge into the chamber.

[rbrowning2]

I'll definitely a look into it then, never thought I'd get so obsessed about how nice a crimp looks. To set this up would I just need the bench drill and the spinner?

 

Thanks very much for the info.

 

One of the joys of reloading you are always after perfection.

 

You need a spinner and case holder the pair are available for under £40

[Cyrus1988]

The crimp is quite important to the performance of the cartridge and need so hold back the shot for a fraction of second to ensure the powder burns correctly you wont regret getting the crimp as close to a factory finish as you can.

 

For an auto it also helps ensure reliable feeding of the cartridge into the chamber.

So would a crimp that's too "loose" mean that the powder does not burn efficiently and this would leave barrels that were quite dirty compared to a cartridge were the powder burns as it should?

[rbrowning2]

So would a crimp that's too "loose" mean that the powder does not burn efficiently and this would leave barrels that were quite dirty compared to a cartridge were the powder burns as it should?

 

Yes and the velocity/pressure would be inconsistent resulting in a poor standard deviation which is what determines a good cartridge from an average or poor cartridge and what the proof house looks for to demonstrate a quality consistent cartridge, assuming it is within

Max pressure.

[Cyrus1988]

Yes and the velocity/pressure would be inconsistent resulting in a poor standard deviation which is what determines a good cartridge from an average or poor cartridge and what the proof house looks for to demonstrate a quality consistent cartridge, assuming it is within

Max pressure.

Is there a predetermined limit for the standard deviation that the proof houses use? A long term goal is to eventually send a batch off to the proof house to be tested.

[Andy H]

You are getting there , Try this and see if it will make a difference , With the cartridge you have just crimped put a 5p piece on top in the centre and try re crimping.

[Cyrus1988]

You are getting there , Try this and see if it will make a difference , With the cartridge you have just crimped put a 5p piece on top in the centre and try re crimping.

I'll have to give that a go tomorrow, I'll post up a pic of the results. Thanks very much for the tip.

[deershooter]

This is a good crimp done without a spinner I would guess the wad is 1 mm too high

 

Deershooter

[Cyrus1988]

This is a good crimp done without a spinner I would guess the wad is 1 mm too high

 

Deershooter

They look amazing, what loader are you using?

[Floating Chamber]

Used cases usually crimp better than new cases, because the plastic 'knows where to go'. (Called 'crimp memory').

Remember, too, that plastics can VARY.

Spin them for a final finish.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Floating Chamber