First attempt at shotgun cartridge reloading

[rbrowning2]

Continental shooter I think we will agree to disagree, but one final point

 

You say AS32 is not AS now I am sure you know that every explosive item must be

classified by a competent authority (in the UK HSE and in France INERIS) so that it can be legally transported under ADR, etc.

 

So if you look in the INERIS document for classified explosives you will not find AS32 you will find every other powder Nobel Sport France manufactures, AS24, AS, Lowsonic, A0, A1, A1SP etc etc etc.

 

Now this document may not be 100% up to date but you will see entries page 4 for the like of AS dating from 1997 and the classification renewed in 2006. So I think going back to 1997 you would expect to see AS 32

 

So it looks like AS 32 has never been classified and that is because when you look on a drum of powder sold as AS 32 it states AS CE de type 0080.EXP.06.0002 on the label.

 

So if AS 32 is NOT listed on Nobel Sports web site and is NOT classified for transport.

Yet a reloader in the UK has some? or do you not think he has AS? which in a 12ga will push 28 to 32gm of lead shot.

 

http://www.ineris.fr/centredoc/liste-ce-93-15-1411483926.pdf

 

You will not find SIPE N on the list because it is made by CZ explosia and the CZ do not use INERIS as their competent authority for classification.

The N it SIPE N just means distributed by Nobel Sport.

[Guest cookoff013]

i`m not totally convinced, but AS might be a blend of 2 different powders. (maybe?)

 

i just cant fathom out how any manufacturer could stain independent flakes. ie pink and green.#

[deershooter]

I started loading AS 15 years ago it was supplied to me through another member on here ,and the AS I have used is about right with 20.5-21 grains

Bikertestace, another member on here started reloading and was using 18.5 grains of AS .He attended my local club where we set up the chrono, with his AS at 21 grains and 28 grams of lead they were pushing 1650fps 1 m from the muzzle mine were 1273 Fps

Obviously 2 totally different powders bikertestace didn't have the original tub like I did

 

Deershooter

[rbrowning2]

It does not matter how the manufacture makes it once they have an explosive product/article/item be it propellant powder, a car air bag or a firework it must be classified eg. 1.3c, 1.4s etc if it is not classified it is against the law to transport and carries significant penalties if you do.

I am happy to be proved wrong (that AS and AS32 are different products) just find a certificate of classification for AS32

And publish on the forum.

 

The classifications are a matter of public information and hence available, LOCEF database for the UK competent authority so if a certificate exists it should not be hard to find.

 

I am not saying that an existing powder may not be modified blended for a special customers needs and then given a similar name and classified for that market but even so it must be classified for transport and hence a certificate would be available and to date I have never found a certificate for AS32.

But in doing this you would expect it to be given a different commercial name.

Edited November 4, 2014 by rbrowning2

[rbrowning2]

I started loading AS 15 years ago it was supplied to me through another member on here ,and the AS I have used is about right with 20.5-21 grains

Bikertestace, another member on here started reloading and was using 18.5 grains of AS .He attended my local club where we set up the chrono, with his AS at 21 grains and 28 grams of lead they were pushing 1650fps 1 m from the muzzle mine were 1273 Fps

Obviously 2 totally different powders bikertestace didn't have the original tub like I did

Deershooter

Deershooter are you sure. If my maths are correct 1650fts is 503mtrs/s which is some velocity for a shotgun cartridge !!!! 150fps faster than game bore black gold. In fact and again I am happy to be proved wrong I know of no commercial cartridge doing 1650fps.

 

P..S 15 years on from you and I am using AS at 21 grains for 28gm in 12ga so nothing has changed.

Edited November 4, 2014 by rbrowning2

[rbrowning2]

there is data for sipe and 35 grams of shot, i`ve seen it.

Gualandi list data to 35gm using SIPE

 

http://www.gualandi.it/docs/tabpolv_2013_eng.pdf

 

And data for various GM3 loads.

 

And I am sure they would not publish dangerous data after all they have the ballistic gear to verify the data which in turn helps them sell their wads.

Edited November 4, 2014 by rbrowning2

[Guest cookoff013]

they dont even state the criteria, ie saami or cip.

often no pressure or speed data. for me that flags up that something is amis.

 

there is nothing wrong with pushing the limits, but i`ve got so close sometimes and failed on statistical analysis that its not funny.,....

 

i read a disclaimer to reduce charges by 10 % for weak action guns... thats from gualandi....

 

 

ps, they make awsome wads.

[rbrowning2]

they dont even state the criteria, ie saami or cip.

often no pressure or speed data. for me that flags up that something is amis.

 

there is nothing wrong with pushing the limits, but i`ve got so close sometimes and failed on statistical analysis that its not funny.,....

 

i read a disclaimer to reduce charges by 10 % for weak action guns... thats from gualandi....

 

 

ps, they make awsome wads.

 

Hi Cookoff13 why would they as Gualandi would naturally be CIP as within the EU. (saami is USA only I think).

 

I am told but have not tried it that if you contact Gualandi about a load within the table they can supply the ballistic print outs.

However you would expect all loads to be within CIP as it would not be to there advantage to publish dangerous data - good data = good load = sell loads of wads..

As you say, I normally start a little below what the table shows and work up to the table data.

[biketestace]

I started loading AS 15 years ago it was supplied to me through another member on here ,and the AS I have used is about right with 20.5-21 grains

Bikertestace, another member on here started reloading and was using 18.5 grains of AS .He attended my local club where we set up the chrono, with his AS at 21 grains and 28 grams of lead they were pushing 1650fps 1 m from the muzzle mine were 1273 Fps

Obviously 2 totally different powders bikertestace didn't have the original tub like I did

 

Deershooter

And I checked again with my own chrono 1625-1650fps

[pestcontrol1]

And I checked again with my own chrono 1625-1650fps

so which AS was this then i like the sound of that

[biketestace]

so which AS was this then i like the sound of that

I bought it as AS to suit 28gm loads mate

[pestcontrol1]

I bought it as AS to suit 28gm loads mate

the AS i am using at the moment is about 1450 with 21 gn if i remember right and on the data sheet i have it go"s up to 23gn under 28 gram of shot

[deershooter]

the AS i am using at the moment is about 1450 with 21 gn if i remember right and on the data sheet i have it go"s up to 23gn under 28 gram of shot

 

Are these data figures or chrono checked speeds as most factory shells including express World Cup or hull sovereigns have not done 1450 on my chrono they just lie on the box

 

Deershooter

Edited November 6, 2014 by deershooter

[Guest cookoff013]

Are these data figures or chrono checked speeds as most factory shells including express World Cup or hull sovereigns have not done 1450 on my chrono they just lie on the box

 

Deershooter

 

yup.

big pork pies.

[rbrowning2]

Remember the manufactures get their figures from a test barrel, which is minium bore diameter for the gauge, max choke (for max pressure) and then the cartridges are temperture normallised and then they add a fiddle factor to get muzzel velcity. Even the fiddle factor looks to be different for different manufactures.

 

In the real world we will never see the same velocity it will always be lower, the only way to verify manufactures claim is to send some to the proof house.

 

So yes they can claim what they want

[Guest cookoff013]

the test (chamber) and barrel has set criteria,(chamber, forcing cone, length, and barrel size and barrel length) i am lead to believe that they are the tightest chambers but still in specification.

the cip test barrel isnt choked, but the saami barrels are.

 

yes there is a fiddle factor, there appears to be an accellerating black hole medium in front of all test barrels.

 

i couldnt care less whats happening in the black hole. xfps at 2.5M is good enough for me.

[Dan.lord]

Wow didn't think I'd cause such a hub a loo Just wanted to show off my reloading skills or lack of On the tub it just says Vectan AS, but on the Invoice it's listed as Vectan AS-32 powder, so whatever it is I have no Idea

Anyway thanks to all for the information etc, all read, & tried to digest it.

I got my spinner from FES to day, & tried it out.... Wow what a difference it makes, really easy to use. Totally impressed TBH.

Weather it's cheaper to buy factory or not I haven't worked it out, don't care really as I find it good fun to make them up & very satisfying to see the end result.

 

Hmm anyone know how to add more pictures ? can't seem to find how

 

Put them on here if anyone want's to look. Cheers Dan.

 

http://s74.photobucket.com/user/Danlord40/library/?sort=3&page=1

Edited November 6, 2014 by Dan.lord

[pestcontrol1]

Are these data figures or chrono checked speeds as most factory shells including express World Cup or hull sovereigns have not done 1450 on my chrono they just lie on the box

 

Deershooter

the 1450 is off the top of my head i cant remember the figure when i chrono"d them but it was somewhere near that. But you are right about whats on the box all lies

[turbo33]

Wow didn't think I'd cause such a hub a loo Just wanted to show off my reloading skills or lack of On the tub it just says Vectan AS, but on the Invoice it's listed as Vectan AS-32 powder, so whatever it is I have no Idea

Anyway thanks to all for the information etc, all read, & tried to digest it.

I got my spinner from FES to day, & tried it out.... Wow what a difference it makes, really easy to use. Totally impressed TBH.

Weather it's cheaper to buy factory or not I haven't worked it out, don't care really as I find it good fun to make them up & very satisfying to see the end result.

 

Hmm anyone know how to add more pictures ? can't seem to find how

 

Put them on here if anyone want's to look. Cheers Dan.

 

http://s74.photobucket.com/user/Danlord40/library/?sort=3&page=1

 

That's the spirit Dan They look great matey. Re pics, there's 4 boxes. Bottom one says IMG. Left click on this and it will turn yellow and say copied. Go back to your post on pw, right click on post where the curser is flashing,and choose paste. It may ask you about large information.....just click allow. There will be a long code appearing. That is your pic. Refresh the page and it will be there! Hope this helps

[brian28]

Those ones shown top left look very good

[biketestace]

Cracking effort DL !!

[Dan.lord]

Thanks Chaps Always nice to have a bit of praise. Hope to try them out on Sat weather permitting Cheers Turbo33 I'll give that a try Yeah last 3 pic's are the latest Well pleased with the results if I do say so myself

Edited November 6, 2014 by Dan.lord

[Dan.lord]

Sorted

[TaxiDriver]

The chap at Smith's Garage just off Fronks Road (round the side of Eastern Tyres) used to be into reloading shot shells,

I can remember him having several reloading presses mounted to a bench in the garage / workshop

[UK fowler]

Thanks Chaps Always nice to have a bit of praise. Hope to try them out on Sat weather permitting Cheers Turbo33 I'll give that a try Yeah last 3 pic's are the latest Well pleased with the results if I do say so myself

sweet they look A1