Jimmer Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Is there a ratio of m2 to a pheasant? Or what are people's plot sizes for birds put down? Is south facing preferable? We have plots from 0.85 acre to about 2 acres and sometimes 8 acre fields of kale. We find small plots easier get the birds going over the guns, but they do sometimes all go up at once. We put down about 400 birds and want them in 3 permanent drives roughly 0.85 each. Would like to put 60 birds out on every drive, is this reasonable? Many thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Size of plots really depends on the land you have available and the number of beaters you are likely to have to beat them. I try to make all my plots about 1 acre each, modern farm machinery needs some space to work in. Strips 30 yards or so wide alongside a hedge or wood are best. 150 yards long will give you about an acre. Best thing you can do with 8 acres of kale is to get the farmer to leave you 30 yard wide strips when he cuts it, trying to beat it as one block is a total waste of time. The amount of birds in a drive always varies, you can manage this to a degree by good use of feeders, drinkers, no disturbance, good fox control, but you just never know if you will have 10 or 100 in a drive. Putting down 400 expect to shoot between 120 and 160 a season, so 7 shoots then about 20 a day on average unless you have a big shoot close by when by good use of covers and habitat management you can persuade some interloping birds to stay. . Releasing 400 you will struggle to get that sort of number of your own birds in a drive after the first day. A A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Can't disagree with any of the above, and with respect I think your expectations are far too excessive for the numbers of birds you're releasing. If you have 3 drives per day and shot 60 from each drive you would only have 40 birds remaining after the second day. I don't know of any driven shoots that have ever had 100% returns. Good returns are deemed to be anywhere above 40% I believe, but those who do it for a living will tell you for sure. We release 350 birds on our small syndicate shoot which consists of 7 drives plus a walkabout and we shoot maybe 40 plus at the start of the season and then settle somewhere around the 20's ( there are some pretty average guns shooting )which can dwindle down to around the high teens towards the end of the season dependant on weather and various other factors. If you want 60 birds per drive you need to be releasing many more than you intend, based on how many days you expect to shoot. Unless your livelihood depends on it i wouldn't get too hung up on figures; just get out there and enjoy yourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1985 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Can't disagree with any of the above, and with respect I think your expectations are far too excessive for the numbers of birds you're releasing. If you have 3 drives per day and shot 60 from each drive you would only have 40 birds remaining after the second day. I don't know of any driven shoots that have ever had 100% returns. Good returns are deemed to be anywhere above 40% I believe, but those who do it for a living will tell you for sure. We release 350 birds on our small syndicate shoot which consists of 7 drives plus a walkabout and we shoot maybe 40 plus at the start of the season and then settle somewhere around the 20's ( there are some pretty average guns shooting )which can dwindle down to around the high teens towards the end of the season dependant on weather and various other factors. If you want 60 birds per drive you need to be releasing many more than you intend, based on how many days you expect to shoot. Unless your livelihood depends on it i wouldn't get too hung up on figures; just get out there and enjoy yourselves. Last season we shot 2 pheasants more than we released, this year my return is not going to be so good due a few factors, cover not as good and very poor guns on the first 2 days, I have my plots of cover at 1 hecter or 2.2 acres. Released some French for the first time this year and the return on them will be appalling, I don't have enough beaters and they leek out the sides and it's more pheasant land than partridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Like a lot of questions its pretty hard to say on the little info given and not knowing ur ground/shoot I think and most GWCT if u're getting over 30% returns ur better than the average esp fr a diy/pt keeper but will obviously depend on ur ground and ur neighbours. Know of 1 syndicate that used to shoot 100ish% but when the neighbouring commercial shoot moved pens about went down to 10% for a couple of years till they got things figured out, back up to 30% odd now Are u using the crops for a drive or is it holding cover at the back of a wood or other flushing point? Like others have said will depend on ur beaters etc plus ur lie of the land and wot the farmer is prepared to let u plant. Will also depend type of crop and even how it grows from season to season (thicker better crops or thiner colder etc) Even the direction u sow the crops can affect how the birds fly. Unless ur hand/whistle feedingu cannae really control the ammount of birds in any drive and even then some birds will move from drive/feed to other feeds so u will always have bigger and poorer drives even if u released the same ammount of birds in every drive. I take it u have other drives and want 3 extra drives rather than just 3 drives? Also with cover crops i think birds will quickly run out off them if ur not careful and have stops in, so if 2 crops are cloe together the banging on 1 crop will push birds out of the next. Out of 400 if ur shooting 120-150 head a season u will be doing ok, wether the cost of putting and fencing crops in is worth it for bags of that size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Last season we shot 2 pheasants more than we released, this year my return is not going to be so good due a few factors, cover not as good and very poor guns on the first 2 days, I have my plots of cover at 1 hecter or 2.2 acres. Released some French for the first time this year and the return on them will be appalling, I don't have enough beaters and they leek out the sides and it's more pheasant land than partridge. We had returns of over 80% last season, and my nephews shoot shot more birds than they released, but surprisingly none of them were theirs as they'd ringed theirs and none of the birds they shot had rings on them, and this season we have so far shot 95 birds out of 125 released, with possibly another two shoots to go, but they are both walked up rough shoots and both are more or less surrounded by other shoots. We also released some redlegs but they disappeared long before the season started unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I find it quite hilarious that shoots have the audacity to claim big % returns, sometimes over 100%, but then in the next sentence claim they have big shoots as neighbours. If they tagged their own released birds they would get some surprises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmer Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. Looks like anything around an acre will be fine. A bit more info:- It's our own land(250 acres) and have our own drill, plots are on edges of fields on top of steep hills above a valley. When I say put up 60 a drive, I don't mean shoot 60 per drive I would expect to shoot 1 in 5 ish, that's 11 per drive ish at the start of the season from 3 drives, using 5 beaters 4 dogs and a couple of flagers/stops, guns are all on pegs.I would expect to shoot al least 40%(we shot 50% last year) and we are well on target this year (43% shot already and still 3 days left)we are pretty much the last shoot in the exe valley at its narrowist point with all of exmoor above us, theres 1 small shoot about 2 miles away and a commercial shoot 1.5 miles away. We have been using only kale, was thinking of canary grass/game bird mix next year that contained some food, to make a plot that would not need reseeding. All birds are ex-layers. We open pen up 6 weeks before the first shoot, they generally wonder a bit and then come back when winter sets in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmer Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I find it quite hilarious that shoots have the audacity to claim big % returns, sometimes over 100%, but then in the next sentence claim they have big shoots as neighbours. If they tagged their own released birds they would get some surprises. I was told never to tag our birds as I'd end up cheesed off by the end of the season on how little of the ones shot were actually ours. I think the fact is that quite a few will always leave and its up to you to attract some back, if your shoot has a good habitat and plenty of feed and a good keeper small shoots surrounded by other shoots can potentially always poach others back, whether there yours that have left already is another question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Must admit most of the high ground shoots i know tend to have the best % and most will be their own birds, as there is nowhere for the birds to wander too as long as u can keep them dogged up the valley. As most pheasants won't wander over high exposed hills etc So u may well do ok, plus if ur nearest shoots are 1.5+ miles away u won't be gaining massive ammounts off birds, most of these 'high% shoots' are directly over the fence from big shoots. With low ground shoots ur birds will happily wander in all directions I'm sure u'll look into it and mibee phone a cover crop sales company but RCG will take 2 years to establish and if broadcast will become quite thick (too thick really for birds) so u will need a nurse crop or pssibly use smaller plots of the RCG within the crop to create different flushing points but will get complicated sowning it, and replant strip around ur RCG, if ur doing the planting might be worth it thou. If its ur ground (i'm guessing a sheep farm?) would u want to graze the crops off come feb? I have heard mixed reports about RcG that it can be deangerous to some animals (horses i think) as can cause bloat? due to the long stems Or possibly u could plant fodder crops next to ur cover crops to increase the size? Be well worth speaing to kings,bright, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1985 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I find it quite hilarious that shoots have the audacity to claim big % returns, sometimes over 100%, but then in the next sentence claim they have big shoots as neighbours. If they tagged their own released birds they would get some surprises. Did I say I was next to a big shoot.... No, am I next to a big shoot.... No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I find it quite hilarious that shoots have the audacity to claim big % returns, sometimes over 100%, but then in the next sentence claim they have big shoots as neighbours. If they tagged their own released birds they would get some surprises. I don't understand how it can be audacious if they give the reason for their high percentage returns as being next door to other shoots, as my nephews for example. I don't know how else they are supposed to arrive at a percentage other than to count the numbers of birds shot compared to the number of birds they released. I'm assuming the neighbouring shoot to them counted those with tags on as part of their percentage? Around here there are many many shoots, and it is no exaggeration to say there is hardly anywhere you can walk without being on someones shoot; how does one shoot (unless they put down a specific breed) know all the birds they have shot are actually theirs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 If its ur ground (i'm guessing a sheep farm?) would u want to graze the crops off come feb? I have heard mixed reports about RcG that it can be deangerous to some animals (horses i think) as can cause bloat? due to the long stems Or possibly u could plant fodder crops next to ur cover crops to increase the size? Be well worth speaing to kings,bright, etc I checked this point out with Kings, and RCG can cause staggers in sheep and cattle if they graze it when its growing in the spring/early summer apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I have been at it a fair time and this is how I think about it - but every shoot will be different. 50% and above is a good return for most shoots. Below 40% I would start to get concerned. Under 30% leads to a judicial enquiry and rectification if needed. Half acre plots work OK if they are along the side of a wood or a thick hedge or margin strip. Acre plus work best provided roosting trees are close by. You don't need masses of brushers for the big plots - just go about it in a different way and work (each brusher covers more ground by zig-zagging) harder. Obviously takes longer. Every piece of ground is different. The number of birds in each plot depends on the feed regime - hand or hoppers - and above all the weather. Heavy rain will keep the birds bunched up in the best cover. A nice sunny day sends them exploring. Etc. You have to look at the total of birds flushed over the days shooting. Apart from the 'sweep' I don't care much about the bag. Number of shots at game birds is the thing. If I put a bird over a guns head that is shootable that is all I can do. The rest is up to him or her. Count the bangs not the birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmer Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I have been at it a fair time and this is how I think about it - but every shoot will be different. 50% and above is a good return for most shoots. Below 40% I would start to get concerned. Under 30% leads to a judicial enquiry and rectification if needed. Half acre plots work OK if they are along the side of a wood or a thick hedge or margin strip. Acre plus work best provided roosting trees are close by. You don't need masses of brushers for the big plots - just go about it in a different way and work (each brusher covers more ground by zig-zagging) harder. Obviously takes longer. Every piece of ground is different. The number of birds in each plot depends on the feed regime - hand or hoppers - and above all the weather. Heavy rain will keep the birds bunched up in the best cover. A nice sunny day sends them exploring. Etc. You have to look at the total of birds flushed over the days shooting. Apart from the 'sweep' I don't care much about the bag. Number of shots at game birds is the thing. If I put a bird over a guns head that is shootable that is all I can do. The rest is up to him or her. Count the bangs not the birds. Great advise thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.