BASC - Landowners - Shooting

[magman]

thank,s for the reply,s david :blink:

[David BASC]

Dave G - thanks for that - i am happy to use that as the basis for a new strapline- I will also change the ad completely - but due to copy deadlines etc it may take an issue or two before the changes appear in the press.

 

Blackbart- a 2 year agreement is V short- we would always push for at last a 5 year agreement, maybe with a breakpoint after 3 years if it was a new lease.

 

Yes Agents can push prices up and i have had first hand experience of this. It is a mater of supply and demand- I am affraid that somtimes the cost of sporting rights is what ever somone is prepared to pay!

 

However, regardless of this a properly formatted agreement is a legally binding document- and cannot be broken just because an Agent becomes involved.

 

As far as the hunting Bill is concered- we made an agreement with the CA that they would lead on hunting with Hounds and we would support them - this we did both in public and politically.

 

We agreed that BASC would concentrate on the parts of the Hunting Bill that could affect the use of terriers underground to control foxes. This is used by gamekeepers to protect game stocks for example.

 

First and foremost BASC is a shooting organisation- and that is where our expertise rests.

 

Winchester- I am sorry but I still cant make head of tail of you money MP's BASC Defa thing- maybe I am just being thick. And I am not elected by the way!

 

Shooting does cost even if you get your shooting for free- your cartirdges cost money, your license costs money, traveling to and from the vene costs money......so when money is tight, shooting like many other things will take a hit- like fags, beer, nights out etc

 

David

[David BASC]

Dear All,

 

I think I will be able to change some of the text in the add for the next edition that goes out at the end of April.

 

The new wording will stress that shooters offer a FREE pest control service.

 

That if farmers choose to let any other shooting on their land they should keep the FREE service in place.

 

We need to be carefull to not be seen to be offering 'guaranteed' free pest control service- as we have seen from other posts this somtimes does not happen!

 

Any other thoughts - just pop them to me- via this site or via PM

 

 

Ta

 

David

[Cranfield]

Its good to talk. :blink:

[Highlander]

I’m not in favour of some of the things BASC do in the name of shooting for all in spite of being a longtime member but mention money on here and you’re likely to get a good hiding. :blink:

 

It’s WAKE UP TIME guys. The days of easy, unlimited free shooting are long gone and it might not be too long before there’s none at all. Look at countries like Denmark, Holland etc where there’s more people wanting to shoot than land available and clubbing together with a group of mates is about the only way most can afford tro shoot at all. That or go abroad to places like the UK. To keep our sport going in the face of ever increasing government interference etc requires bodies (look what happened to the pistol shooters partly because they weren’t a big voice) and like it or not BASC and other organisations supply the big voice. More people shooting means more pressure on land to shoot over and the laws of supply and demand will apply as everywhere else. You will be paying for your shooting either sooner or later but inevitably!

 

Hobby shooters are going to find it increasingly hard (witness the pleas on here) to find land to shoot over whether it’s free or otherwise. ‘Professional’ shooters will still be in the frame with farmers as they need and expect their crops protected 24/7. The lone man out for a day every so often hasn’t a hope in hell of meeting farmers demands and that will still fall to those shooters who are ready, willing and able to get out there and scarecrow!

 

In the future hobby shooters will have to pay for the bulk of their shooting like it or not. After all you pay for pretty much every other sport you partake in so why not shooting.

 

Yes it is sad that some can’t afford to do so but then that’s life, we all have things we’d like but can’t afford. Mines a Hughes 500 by the way but that’s another story!

[Country_est]

Hi, just to pitch in here (a bit late I know), I am a member of 2 "wildfowling" clubs, one of which is now solely a rough shooting club, and pay for both. We have lost a lot of land recently due to th farmer retiring and selling up, and even offering to pay we are finding difficulties to get more land.

 

I Agree with a lot of what is being said regarding paying for pigeon shooting but nobody yet seems to have mentioned NPCC, is this not just another method of paying for your shooting.

 

PS it it costs me £60 just to shoot air rifle at targets round here.

£25 for clay club membership

£130 wildfowling }Both inc BASC membership

£200 Ruff shooting }1 of which I convert to 2 junior memberships for my sons.

 

Add to that the cost of feul for a 250 - 300 mile round trip, and I would be willing to pay for local shooting, but know I wouldn't be able to do weekdays.

 

On the price of paying for shooting,

just forgive the easy maths but

if pigeons eat 10% of a farmers crop worth £1000 then if somebody was to pay the farmer £150 but only shoot weekends and holidays then everybody makes a profit.

 

If the farmer lets the shooting out free, and 90% of the damage is stopped then farmer is still down 1% ie £10.

 

Remember does the farmer care (too much) if he makes his £1000 from the crop or £900 from the crop and £100 from shooting ??

[auto culto]

think basc needs to stop stirring the **** and giving the farmers more ideas. Time would be far better spent getting the supermarkets to pay a fair price for the commodities purchased then the farmers wouldn't be scratching around for every Penny they can get their hands on to keep the wolf from the door.

 

I dont belong to any gun club or go clay shooting because i cant afford to ! If i start getting charged for vermin control / crop protection i will have to stop shooting. There are many people at the grass roots level like me that would be forced out of a Hobie just to make way for those with money that can afford to pay but cant get any permission. THIS IS WRONG but what difference will it make with us low levels voicing our concerns anyway. BASC is getting to big and is being run as a business, not a club and working for its members.

 

Where is basc going wrong? they need to put another objective on the list- Screw the members and make as money as possible

 

BASC is a national representative body for sporting shooting. We have five strategic objectives:

 

A strong and unified voice for shooting

All party backing for shooting

Balanced comment in the media

Continued opportunity to go shooting

High standards

[tolley]

as we all know shoooting getting knock from all sides.

its the same old story if you got the money you can do it.

just like labour

what next ,£1 a pigeon,50p a crow i wonder how much the farmer would see.

soon it will be like some posh estate shoot, har har

they say its a rich mans sport.

lets hope not

 

all that said it must cost me for a days shooting fuel ,shells,ticket ,gun etc £25+ aday already

 

basc do a good job but this well

[David BASC]

Auto C - strong words- can you clarify / justify you statement that BASC is screwing the members? I do not appreciate you making such statements in a public forum without backing them up with FACTS.

 

Are you saying that if BASC was small it would be more effective (such as who?)

 

Are you saying that a large body representing shooting is not a good idea?

 

As I have said before - look at ths in context- we are not stiring the **** far from it.

 

We are actively encouraging farmers to keep offering you guys free pest control! We are saying this in our meetings with farmers.

 

We are now advertising this in the farming press.New wording in the adverts in British Farmer & Grower in the next issue at the end of this month.

 

Look at the example just a couple of posts below- if the farmer sells up then you will loose your shooting! Do you want that? No, then why do you not support BASC working with farmers to make sure their diversification plans do not exclude shooting?

 

 

David

[marco you missed another one]

Hi Gents,

 

Again David you manage to start WarIII, in wich office you working at Basc, what do you use at work ..... a SPOON?

 

David as you wrote in other topics you where prepared to give your work details to us for any contacts if needed, you work for BASC hopefully, then you working for us, Basc members, now will it be possible to know where and a phone number in the Basc office where I could contact you?

 

I really think that as Basc spokesman we need to clarify some points, due to various topics answers given and started by you, I find some very good some absolutely out of order.

 

Thanks

Mark

[magman]

As i have said - BASC is all things to All Shooters - 'Sporting Shoters' and pigeon / rabbit shooters.

 

Some shooting is paid for, some shooting is not - this will never change.

 

BASC will carry on promoting shooting to farmers, and yes- promoting BASC members to farmers- after all our members pay us their hard earned cash and they will come come first.

 

I am as good as my word and I will add a 'flash' to my adverts in BFG saying

 

' Remembers shooters will help you control pests such as rabbits & pigeons for FREE!'

 

How about that - anyone got any other suggestions?

 

I will also write to ALL my affilaited clubs and syndicates asking which ones will share thier shooting.

 

Remember guys you know where I am if you have anything to say to me - if you want to post it on this forum - fine, if you want to contact my direct = fine - i am here - I am on you side!

 

David

 

 

David Ilsley

Head of Membership Marketing

BASC

Membership Marketing.

hmmmm.

 

 

[MC]

Marco, you really have missed another one.

 

You cannot blame David for defending his corner and he is not or has not tried to start WW3,

 

AC was the one who attacked him saying BASC are only screwing people.

 

I for one am a member of BASC and as I see it are the only major shooting organisation who give a **** about all forms of shooting.

 

All the others are only interested in their own little world and that is why they fail. Ask the NSRA about shooting rabbits with a .22LR and they won't want to know and won't care.

 

Which part of his post didn't you read? It seems quite clear what he has written, and what the aims of the BASC are.

 

That is to try and get people like us more shooting.

[Browning]

Well said Martin.

 

 

Marco, I'm fairly sure that you could get to liase with david if you called BASC HQ, and gave your

name and BASC membership number.

 

You can't really expect him (anyone) to post their contact details on an open forum???

[David BASC]

Guys,

 

I have posted my work e-mail address on this forum, and several of you have already contacted me via e-mail at work.

 

You can contact me via PM as many of you already have.

 

You can contact me at BASC HQ (As a member you will have the number) 01244 573000 - and several of you have.

 

Not sure why you have re-posted MB's post Magman - are you haveing a pop at the fact I am in charge of Marketing at BASC?

 

I have already made this clear and given an insight into what my job involves- but if you want me to claify what marketing is, and what my role at BASC is I will be happy to do so- or have I missed somthing- if so please let me know.

 

Ta

 

D

 

PS I am not in the office until next Wednesday - so if you want to contact me directly can I suggest a PM?

 

Ta

 

D

[marco you missed another one]

Hi Gents,

 

Martincavie,

what was all that about?? I don't uderstand who rocked your boat. For sure I'm in title to discuss points good or bad with David, as he work for Basc, you should read calmly before raging.

 

Browning,

I do expect persons to take responsibility for their action-words, especially if they Work for a club ( Basc) that I pay yearly. Of course David should give his details if he wants to address the 5000 members of this forum as he done. There is nothing to hide.

 

Thanks

Marco

[MC]

Marco,

 

That wasn't a rant by any means,

 

You started your post by saying that David had managed to start WW3 again and worked with a spoon.

 

I was only putting forward my opinion, which other people had agreed with.

 

The BASC have done a lot of work with various clubs and syndicates accross the country helping them with buying land/marshes to safeguard their shooting.

Ask Suffolk Shooter what he has gained from them in the last few weeks. It is easy to sit here and knock people for saying one thing and because you have paid your membership or not as the case maybe. And they have not directly helped you shoot more this year.

 

I do not do an awful lot of pigeon shooting but I do a lot of Wildfowling, clay shooting and target rifle shooting and would welcome the chance to shoot more pigeons. If the BASC are encouraging farmers to let more people on their land then I only see that as a plus.

[marco you missed another one]

Hi Gents,

 

Martincavie I don't want to start another banter but you still missing the point, I haven't said anything about Basc itself and what as done for us. I'm was talking about David that by the way I don't know at all, then do you mind if I need to clarify my concern with him directly? Hence his talking-writing on a forum that the first object its to discuss about our sport, so is sticked is *** out by starting topics that needs to be discuss due to the importance of the subjects and by sharing his position within Basc of course people will go for him ( civil way), what do you expect?

 

Recently David Basc as been involved in various topics so now I'm expecting a conference organized by Basc with his personal presence where we will be able to discuss WW3 shooting subjects.

 

Thanks

Marco

[MC]

Hi Gents,

 

Again David you manage to start WarIII, in wich office you working at Basc, what do you use at work ..... a SPOON?

David as you wrote in other topics you where prepared to give your work details to us for any contacts if needed, you work for BASC hopefully, then you working for us, Basc members, now will it be possible to know where and a phone number in the Basc office where I could contact you?

 

I really think that as Basc spokesman we need to clarify some points, due to various topics answers given and started by you, I find some very good some absolutely out of order.

 

Thanks

Mark

 

 

What is this then?

[Suffolk shooter]

Cheers MC for the lead-in, I was reading the posts wondering how to reply.

 

Like some people on here I have to say that I felt BASC was expensive, overated and like most organisations run as a club "For the Boys". In fact if you look at some of my posts on the subject elsewhere, you will see how against them I was.

 

That was until recently...........

 

I contacted William Heal (Eastern Region Rep) regarding a few questions/queries I had over shooting issues, and found that 1. He always replied even though I wasn't a member of BASC and 2. He's comments were well structured and to be honest extremely informative.

 

As a result of my dealings with him as a non member, I phoned him to discuss the possibility of getting him over to our Syndicate's estate to cast his eye over things and prepare a report as to what we should try and achieve not just for this yesr but subsequent years to come. Now bearing in mind I was (And currently am still not) not a member, he could have said NO. But he didn't, we arranged for him to come over and walk the course with me, the Keeper and Shoot captain and treasurer. He met us at 9.30 am and by the time we had finished he left at around 2pm some 4.5 hours later. He promised a report within a week and in fact it was recieved within three days, with not only the report that he promised , but also some back up literature and information as well as contact numbers etc to aid us.

 

As a result of this generous behaviour, we, the Syndicate, have decided that we will be joining under the syndicate membership scheme. what did this cost us. Nothing except the promise that we would offer one of our days for the 2008-9 season in the BASC Sealed bids auction. A small price to pay for valued advice me thinks.

 

Regarding insurance for shooting, I currently am a member of BASA (British Airgun Shooters Assoc.) and CPSA (God knows why given recent events), but I will be cancelling both of these in order to take up the BASC option with the syndicate. Not only is the Syndicate covered with individual members and the Keeper, but also any guests we may have, any employees (i.e Beaters, Picker uppers) etc. On top of that each member of the syndicate gets his/her own individual insurance and membership number including coverage in europe.

 

My views on BASC have definately changed for the better, and that is thanks to the Eastern region Rep.

 

Regarding the actual posts above, I can see what David BASC is trying to say, and that basically whilst not directly telling Farmers/landowners to charge for shooting it is an unfortunate state of affairs that means that if we "Joe Public" want more land to shoot over (Free or otherwise), Farmers/Landowners aren't stupid and will themselves think of it as a way of getting alittle extra income.

 

This won't apply to all F/LO's especially those who have long standing relationships with us guys who they have known and trusted over a number of years. Take Mark Bivvy for example, now i don't know Mark, but I would guess judging by a recent post about the number of permissions he has and the extent of acerage, this is somebody who has the trust of farmers and obviuosly carries out their requirements regarding vermin control very well. Otherwise he wouldn't have all that permission for very long.

 

Somebody recently (Last 3 months or so) did a survey on here about would you be prepared to pay for your shooting. The answer to that from my point of view was whether or not the cost being asked equated to a having a good day out whislt helping the F/LO out with his problems. At the end of the day, it should be a partnership between the F/LO's and us the Shooter/Ferreter/Hawker etc. We both want something the same, but we both come at it from different points of view.

 

Until the Syndicate I belong to, I have never paid for shooting vermin be it Rat, Pigeon, Corvid, FOx, Rabbit etc. but getting involved in the running of the syndicate has taught me that there is alot more to it than just turning up and firing at quarry be it game or vermin.

 

As David BASC said, those that have free shooting, good luck to you but be aware that unless you have exclusive rights in writing, be prepared for the day when somebody approaches your F/LO and offers them money to do the smae thing you do for nothing. Recent case was Topgunners post. Lesson's to be learned by all.

 

Everything has a value and worth, Value being the actual cost paid and Worth being what the true value should be. The value of shooting maybe more than the worth, but each of us knows what are limits are regarding costs and therefore we have a right to not pay over the worth should we so choose to. Some of us who work fulltime and therefore can only get out at weekends and evenings with the odd day off here and there are at a disadvantage to those who can turn up when required at the drop of a hat. We feel that paying

for the privilage to shoot on our available time is a small price to pay. But certainly I wouldn't pay over the odds, I did it last year in the syndicate and took the necessary action to ensure it didn't happen again.

 

I think regarding Davids position he is a brave man for putting his/BASC comments on here knowing the sort of comments he is likely to get back. As he has already stated, it is the majority of their members wants and needs that are pandered to, because that is the democratic way. If BASC or any organisation for that matter, chased around after every little question/query/concern going then in affact nothing would get done, because they'd be spread to thinly and as a result they wouldn't still be going as an organisation.

 

Lets not forget those of us who pay the fees for each association we belong to has a right to ask all the questions under the sun we want answers to, but to be honest we have no right to expect all the answers to be what we want to here or see. That is why we pay our fees to employ people on our behalf to carryout and undertake these surveys, conferences etc. to gauge opinion of Farmers and Landowners about opeing up their land for shooting or Hunting (Oops, sorry exercising of the Hounds), Hawking, Ferreting, Fishing, Off roading, Walking, Cycling, Riding etc. etc.

 

SS

[marco you missed another one]

Hi Gents,

 

 

Martincavie you are really dom....... thats a reply to a topic from marco you missed another one

 

 

I probally didn't word it the correct way but still I think there is plenty to discuss.

 

That's it no more now.

 

thanks

MArco

[David BASC]

Suffolk Shooter,

 

Thank you for that - I am pleased that Willie was able to help you.

 

Having expert staff avaiable when you need them is one advantage that BASC has - yes we are expensive- - but in return we try to give value.

 

As I have said there are cheaper options - and you get what you pay for in this life!

 

Please feel free to ask anything you want- but as I have said earlier- be prepared for a blunt and honest reply!

 

Thanks agian guys.

 

David

[Browning]

I do expect persons to take responsibility for their action-words, especially if they Work for a club ( Basc) that I pay yearly. Of course David should give his details if he wants to address the 5000 members of this forum as he done. There is nothing to hide.

 

Thanks

Marco

 

Marco, the thing is, David is not only addressing the 5000 members of this forum, as this is a public forum he is addressing the Internet community as a whole, which amounts to millions, and I am sure you will agree not all are pro shooting......I see that David has now publishd his telephone number....not something I would recommend on this or any public forum.

[MC]

Hi Gents,

 

 

Martincavie you are really dom....... thats a reply to a topic from marco you missed another one

 

 

I probally didn't word it the correct way but still I think there is plenty to discuss.

 

That's it no more now.

 

thanks

MArco

 

 

Well I must be dom (whatever that is) Because I quoted a post that you made, and then you tell me I had quoted a post made by you. That's weird.

 

Is "marco you missed another one" a different person to "marco you missed another one"? Am I missing something here?

Are you one of those clever play on words type of person or just plain Schitzophrenic?

 

At least there some on here who realise just what the BASC do for shooters, and not just that they take money off you with nothing in return.

[Mungler]

I have no views one way or another on the BASC however I do like the BASC mag I get once in a while that takes pride of place for bog reading.

 

However, I would applaud David's approach on this forum and the fact that he has kept his cool despite an enourmous amount of provocation and flak.

 

If I were he, I would have said "you miserable ****s why don't you **** right off, this is a job to me and I clocked off about 6 pages ago".

 

[David BASC]

Browning,

 

Thanks for the word of caution - but as my name and number get published in the BASC mag, as well as the sporting press from time to time (there is even a picture of me in the latest issue of Sporting Shooter!) I am already 'out there' as it were.

 

Mungler,

 

Glad that the BASC mag keeps you moving!

 

Martin

 

Thanks for that

 

To the rest of you- thanks agian for the feedback - I was glad that I was given the opportunity to fill you in on one of my projects, and glad to have had all the feedback.

 

I will do the same in the future - if that is OK with you and the moderators.

 

I hope you appreciate the fact that I have listened and taken action based on this feedback, and that this represents the way I opperate.

 

I accept that not everyone likes BASC or wants ot be a members - thats fine, as I have said there are other options out there so pay your money and make your choice - but please be a member of somthing!.

 

But BASC is big enough to make a difference and to deliver the service when we are needed, but still not too big to listen and take notice!

 

David