Cyrus1988 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Finally got round to doing a small pattern test on some cartridges I've been loading, problem is, I've nothing to compare them to. Hoping someone can have a look and tell me if they're any good. I did three separate shots, all at 30 yards through 1/2 choke. Average shot count when I load my cartridges is 285. Shot number 1: Total number of hits = 285 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 262 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 92% Shot number 2: Total number of hits = 276 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 253 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 89% Shot number 3: Total number of hits = 280 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 257 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 90% Shot number 2 I definitely pulled to the right and probably the same for number 3. Looks like the gun shoots above the bead which is pretty normal I think. I realised after I got home I should of really done this at 40 yards for the %'s to work better. The black bit in the middle was just duct tape, something to aim at. Edited May 11, 2015 by Cyrus1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 They look good even patterns to me , what was the load and shot size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted May 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 They look good even patterns to me , what was the load and shot size. Sorry, I should of said in the first post. The load was 32.5 grams of lead and the shot size was #5.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 A decent pattern at 30 yards, but I would expect most cartridge/choke combinations to be good at that range. At 40 yards (as you have already stated) is probably a better range to test your shells at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 A decent pattern at 30 yards, but I would expect most cartridge/choke combinations to be good at that range. At 40 yards (as you have already stated) is probably a better range to test your shells at. I'll make up another three targets and do it again at 40 to get a better idea. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Looking good. Your 1/2 choke is throwing 3/4 at the 30 yards but this may well change at 40. As you've gone to the trouble of doing it, 6 shots at 40 will give a more accurate assessment. To assess the pattern quality as opposed to its spread, knocking up a 5" disc - preferably one you can see through - and counting the number of non overlapping holes where you can place the disc without covering any pellets will give you the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 To assess the pattern quality as opposed to its spread, knocking up a 5" disc - preferably one you can see through - and counting the number of non overlapping holes where you can place the disc without covering any pellets will give you the answer. Is that within the 30" circle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 a good way of asessing the pattern is to just put a pigeon on top of the pattern. (pigeon silhouette may be acceptable.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Try a factory loaded cart next and compare the pattern. I did and was very surprised at the result. Home loads patterned far better than factory loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgun Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Impressive pattern. Do you have an idea about muzzle speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Impressive pattern. Do you have an idea about muzzle speed? I had these loads proofed and achieved a velocity at 2.5 m from the muzzle of 1335 fps. Edited May 12, 2015 by Cyrus1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 a good way of asessing the pattern is to just put a pigeon on top of the pattern. (pigeon silhouette may be acceptable.) I've got some full bodied decoys so will try them, cheers cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 I had these loads proofed and achived a velocity at 2.5 m from the muzzle of 1335 fps. man, thats motoring along ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 The thing to do is to get a piece of cardboard and cut a hole in it the size of a pigeon's body. I'm not talking about the feathers, I'm meaning the flesh and bones. Then move it around over the pattern and see "what would have happened if". I would do it at 40 yds, its much more telling, it was at that stage when I was doing it I started using no7 shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) I finally got round to re-doing my pattern test at the proper 40 yards. Same cartridges, gun and choke as before but just 10 yards further out. Shot number 1: Total number of hits = 248 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 173 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 61% Shot number 2: Total number of hits = 252 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 180 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 63% Shot number 3: Total number of hits = 245 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 190 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 67% Shot number 4: Total number of hits = 248 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 174 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 61% Shot number 5: Total number of hits = 247 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 167 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 59% Shot number 6: Total number of hits = 256 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 190 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 67% -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mean percentage of shot within 30" circle from six shots = 63% I was quite surprised how much the pattern opens up between 30 and 40 yards but these percentages fall more in line with what I was expecting. Will make up some 5" discs and see how many holes there are, looks like there might be quite a few. Edited May 20, 2015 by Cyrus1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 If you are inclined chuck in full and see what happens. Then maybe cylinder. Full might surprise you as might cyl up to x yards on the moon with a tailwind in zero gravity.etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 If you are inclined chuck in full and see what happens. Then maybe cylinder. Full might surprise you as might cyl up to x yards on the moon with a tailwind in zero gravity.etc Unfortunately at the moment I only have 1/4 and 1/2. A full choke is the next thing on the shopping list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Unfortunately at the moment I only have 1/4 and 1/2. A full choke is the next thing on the shopping list. I went full and never really went back. Very good patterns from 24g #9 and some others. I not tested every shell but nothing beats a saturated pattern. I use cyl now and again with steel. I avoid full. Try not to go above 1/4. As I started loading slower loads choke became immaterial. Started using full on ground game, anything from 42gbb 36g #4 and the odd box of #2. I bought some stock from a shop that wasn't selling well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Finally got round to going over the above targets with a 20" circle and the 5" discs, results below. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Average number of pellets in one cartridge = 285 32.5 grams of #5.5 lead shot, velocity at 2.5 metres from muzzle = 1335 f.p.s. Range = 40 yards Shot number 1: Total number of hits = 248 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 173 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 61% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 118 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 41% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 0 Shot Number 2: Total number of hits = 252 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 180 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 63% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 103 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 36% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 2 Shot Number 3: Total number of hits = 245 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 190 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 67% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 127 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 45% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 3 Shot Number 4: Total number of hits = 248 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 174 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 61% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 103 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 36% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 2 Shot Number 5: Total number of hits = 247 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 167 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 59% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 94 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 33% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 3 Shot Number 6: Total number of hits = 256 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 190 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 67% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 120 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 42% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mean number of pellets within 30" circle from six shots = 179 Mean percentage of shot within 30" circle from six shots = 63% Mean number of pellets within 20" circle from six shots = 111 Mean percentage of shot within 20" circle from six shots =39% Mean number of 5" discs within 30" circle from six shots = 2 Edited May 31, 2015 by Cyrus1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 A very comprehensive piece of work giving all the possible info' you'd ever need. What is obvious is that you did not use the BASC system. In this regard, as Dr Harridine has left BASC, now might be the time to revamp their procedure which simply does not make sense in some respects. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbasc.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fplugins%2Fdownload-monitor%2Fdownload.php%3Fid%3D724&ei=YPVxVeLeB8Kc7gbumoHoAg&usg=AFQjCNFpIEcq7RXkD73sO2vh5u9rfCN-Aw&bvm=bv.95039771,d.ZGU At the bottom of Page 2 of the procedure, linked as above, see the Para' entitled 'Minimum Number of Pellets Needed. As this is PW the associated Table gives a requirement of 140 pellets. The vulnerable area of a woodpigeon has long been deemed to be 16 sq". It's not necessary to have a PhD in maths to realise something is not right. Easier yet, if you divide a 30" circle into 2" squares there will be 150 perfect ones - SW,NW, NE and SE of the 'equator' are not so. By deleting 10 at random at the circle edge and placing one pellet in each you would have the perfect pattern. Would that kill pigeon consistently at 40 yards as is suggested? No. And what if the pattern was less than perfect!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I ordered a Kicks High Flyer choke in full at it arrived last week so made up some more targets and went back out with the same gun, cartridge and at the same range with the new choke to see what would happen... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Average number of pellets in one cartridge = 285 32.5 grams of #5.5 lead shot, velocity at 2.5 metres from muzzle = 1335 f.p.s. Range = 40 yards - Kicks High Flyer Full Choke Shot number 1: Total number of hits = 255 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 191 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 67% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 142 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 50% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 2 Shot Number 2: Total number of hits = 264 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 193 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 68% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 128 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 45% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 3 Shot Number 3: Total number of hits = 267 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 191 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 67% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 122 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 43% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 1 Shot Number 4: Total number of hits = 252 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 183 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 64% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 100 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 35% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 0 Shot Number 5: Total number of hits = 244 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 173 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 61% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 101 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 35% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 2 Shot Number 6: Total number of hits = 249 Total number of hits within 30" circle = 185 Percentage of shot within 30" circle = 65% Total number of hits within 20" circle = 115 Percentage of shot within 20" circle = 40% Number of 5" discs within 30" circle = 1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mean number of pellets within 30" circle from six shots = 186 Mean percentage of shot within 30" circle from six shots = 65% Mean number of pellets within 20" circle from six shots = 118 Mean percentage of shot within 20" circle from six shots =41% Mean number of 5" discs within 30" circle from six shots = 1.5 So it looks like the Kicks full choke is only throwing a pattern which you'd expect to see from a 3/4 choke which is a bit disappointing. From just looking at the patterns they don't seem to be as evenly distributed as the 1/2 choke I tested, disappointing again. I have some steel home loads that need patterned so hopefully the Kicks choke will perform better than it did with the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 OK, it might just be 3/4 but it's a damned good 3/4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravanman Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Is it not a full choke if using steel,therefore not as tight if lead is used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Is it not a full choke if using steel,therefore not as tight if lead is used? That's a good point. On further reading it does say that the choke constrictions advertised are for when steel is being used. So not disappointing then, the choke has performed as it should of. Will be on the look out for a full choke for lead now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Looking at the results, although the overall figure reflects 3/4, the 'patchiness' check indicates what would be a very good quality 'Full' pattern. Couple this with the central thickening figure which, as near as damn it, also reflects Full, you could say for all practical purposes, Full it is. As Cyrus' methodology is comprehensive, it would be interesting to see his steel pattern results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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