Cartridges - Where to start?

[Elliot]

Hi all, been using Lyalvale Power Reds (27g) on clays since I started shooting at the beginning of this year. I get on with them I think (I've generally never used anything else for clays).

 

I was in a rush the other day when going and grabbed a packet of Lyalvale super lights (21g) as they were all that were lying about at home. I couldn't hit the first few clays I tried with them despite having no problems normally. This got me thinking that it would perhaps pay off to try a few others, the question now is where do you start!? I generally use a Bertta Silver Pigeon 1 in sporter guise and occasionally a Hatsan Escort if it makes a difference. Local shop has a good range of Lyalvales, Fiocchi's and Eley's.

 

Apologies if this has been covered before, a quick search didn't show much up.

 

Elliot.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

_{What are you after?}

 

_{Do you want a cartridge for clays or pigeons?}

 

_{If the 27 g Power Reds are working for you, stick with them at least until you have gained some more experience of shooting clays.}

 

_{Once you are consistent with mount, swing, target picture and lots of broken clays that is the time to start experimenting.}

 

_{Good luck.}

[rovercoupe]

I find it makes no difference what I shoot, I often have 3 or 4 different types of cart when clay shooting even home loads with tear drop shaped shot and all other shapes inbetween and still hit with the same consistency. It only makes a difference if you want a lighter load or one that cycles a semi, if it goes bang then you cannot go wrong.

[Elliot]

Sorry, should have said, these are for clays, I've been using Fiocchi Pigeon 32's for Pigeons.

 

Perhaps it was merely a physiological thing why I couldn't hit the first few clays with a lighter load then. As for the semi-auto it'll cycle down to a 24g supposedly but I prefer a heavier cartridge so that's no real concern. Thanks guys.

 

Elliot.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Elliot

[a303]

I use power blue fibre and can't knock em.

 

Tried hull pro fibre recently and the only difference I could tell between them was that the Pro fibre seemed to give slightly dustier kills.

 

But maybe I was just on em that day.

 

However I did try white gold in plastic at the British and liked them a lot. Smoother and much better kills at range. (When I managed to hit em)

 

But your back to the fibre vs plastic debate.

[neutron619]

I was in a rush the other day when going and grabbed a packet of Lyalvale super lights (21g) as they were all that were lying about at home. I couldn't hit the first few clays I tried with them despite having no problems normally.

 

I agree with TIGHTCHOKE - keep going with the Power Reds. As far as I can tell, where clay cartridges are concerned, 99% of shooters aren't good enough to justify anything other than the cheapest cartridge with #7½ shot they can get hold of. I very much include myself in that 99%.

 

On the other hand, I thought what you said about not hitting the first few clays was interesting. The human brain is very good at anticipating the lead required on a given target, particularly where you've been using the same gun and cartridge for a while and can avoid the major trap of thinking about the shot too much. We can't measure with our eyes that a cartridge has a muzzle velocity of 1100fps or 1300fps or 1500fps, but the brain will adjust to the speed of the cartridge you're using and "calculate" subconsciously the distance you need to be in front of the target.

 

Changing cartridge can interrupt this subconscious understanding of where your shot cloud needs to be in relation to the target and the brain can be sensitive to even a few tens of fps difference in muzzle velocity between brands. Your post implies that you adjusted to the new cartridge quickly, which is a good thing, but certainly if you go from shooting a modest 1200fps load to something doing 1400 fps, you can expect to feel quite uncomfortable and miss a fair few to start with. Ironically, I suspect the top 1% of shooters by ability have to contend with this much more often, since they'll tend to stick with the same gun / cartridge religiously, rely on this natural (but refined) instinct more and usually buy the more expensive (and theoretically more consistent) cartridges.

Edited October 13, 2015 by neutron619

[ChrisAsh]

Quite a reduction in shot numbers between 27-28 gram and 21 gram

[neutron619]

Quite a reduction in shot numbers between 27-28 gram and 21 gram

 

True, but if you point them in the right direction, they'll break the clay.

[a303]

Aye, but if for instance say it was the edge of his pattern that was hittin the clay and when going down to 21g he lost the extra fringe of the pattern hence he started missing??.

[neutron619]

Aye, but if for instance say it was the edge of his pattern that was hittin the clay and when going down to 21g he lost the extra fringe of the pattern hence he started missing??.

 

Oh, certainly possible - I certainly wouldn't argue against it - but by that argument, shouldn't we all be shooting 50g of #7½ at everything? Or more than 50g? Reductio in absurdum, certainly, but with any pattern - based on a probability distribution - there is always the chance that even the densest pattern will still allow that edge-on clay to pass through it.

 

The point, I think, is that 21g of #7½ is considered sufficient for most target presentations by most shooters. It's certainly not many fewer pellets than the 24g maximum for FITASC and those other "Olympic-type" disciplines where the average target (to me at least - an inferior shooter) seems always to be 60 yards away, edge on, and doing about 200mph!

 

There will always be a few clays, even with the heaviest loads, that escape because the pattern fringe, rather than the centre, covers the clay and no single pellet strikes the target. Ultimately, the only way to be sure (or as sure as you can be) of breaking the clay is to put the centre of the pattern on it.

[a303]

I'm simply throwing an idea out there.

I often use 24g and occasionally have used 21g.

My scores are the same, in other words I miss just as many.

 

Just think there may be a better chance of a chipper if you have more flyers due to having more pellets in the air?!?....

 

A chipper to me is as good as a duster on the score card.

[neutron619]

A chipper to me is as good as a duster on the score card.

 

Well, quite. I'm an occasional, rather than a regular or dedicated clay shooter, but I'm aware that one chipped target can be, and often is the difference between going home with a trophy and going home with nothing.

 

As I said, I certainly wouldn't argue against it. In fact, for me, the minimum worthwhile 12 gauge load is really 32g - anything less and I'd pick a smaller tube - so my natural instinct actually agrees with you and then goes a bit further.

Edited October 13, 2015 by neutron619

[Elliot]

Interesting points raised gents, I certainly put myself within the aforementioned 99% although it's generally a clean break rather than 'chipping' the clay.

 

I generally have no issues with swapping to heavier loads, say 27g to 32g, or indeed swapping guns, I'm happy going between O/U - S/A to SxS (certainly on the easier clays that I was missing the 21g at first). I think it can perhaps just be put down to a mental thing then rather than physical, I'm certainly not that good haha! And on the clays in question I'm not sure they were far enough away to qualify the difference in fps, an interesting point though!

 

Elliot.