achosenman Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Iran routinely executes more people every year than Saudi. They are no bastion of enlightenment. That part of the world is a total basket case. Religion is at the root of it IMHO and TBH, I sometimes wish they would nuke themselves into oblivion and do us all a favour. Atb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Currently reported by the BBC "In a statement after the executions, US state spokesman John Kirby appealed to Saudi Arabia's government to respect and protect human rights, and to ensure fair and transparent judicial proceedings. Mr Kirby also urged the Saudi government to permit peaceful expression of dissent and, along with other leaders in the region, to redouble efforts to reduce regional tensions." HA HA HA HA!!!!! 😵 Oh my goodness. Horse! Big door! Bolted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 The really annoying thing is that this has happened at a time when we may punish our troops for doing their jobs. http://news.sky.com/story/1615421/uk-soldiers-may-face-iraq-war-crime-charges This is typical political double standards at its worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 The really annoying thing is that this has happened at a time when we may punish our troops for doing their jobs. http://news.sky.com/story/1615421/uk-soldiers-may-face-iraq-war-crime-charges This is typical political double standards at its worst. Oh really. I don't think we send our troops to commit war crimes. Not that this has been proven, but I don't think it's part of the job description to totally ignore humanitarian law and the Geneva Conventions in theatre. Let's not go there. It a completely different issue. Or start a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Iran routinely executes more people every year than Saudi. They are no bastion of enlightenment. That part of the world is a total basket case. Religion is at the root of it IMHO and TBH, I sometimes wish they would nuke themselves into oblivion and do us all a favour. Atb This is true but once you factor in variables such as Iran's much greater population and their epidemic drug problems things aren't quite so black and white. Bear in mind also that executions are carried out the world over including America and China. The problem with the Saudi's is that their king appears to think poets writing against the state and 17 years olds speaking ill of the government are fair game for beheadings ! As Dr D mentions saudi's heading the human right council is absolutely laughable, you really couldn't make it up. Edited January 3, 2016 by Hamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 A picture paints a thousand words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Their country - their rules. If they want to slaughter each other, I say good luck to them and let's sell them guns and ammo! I object to them exporting their mentalism to the West, but they're free to have a ball at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Their country - their rules. If they want to slaughter each other, I say good luck to them and let's sell them guns and ammo! I object to them exporting their mentalism to the West, but they're free to have a ball at home. Your empathy for your fellow man is heart warming on the Lord's day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I have absolutely no time for religion or those spouting religious nonsense of any creed, period. Hamster I'm sorry but you are so blinkered its laughable. Iran executed around 700 people last year. Heinous crimes such as "enmity against God" and "corruption on earth" etc etc. Even a basic search reveals the fallacy of your POV. I suppose living safe and sound in Canterbury helps, but the list for the death penalty in Iran is astounding. Yet you still have the temerity to compare it to the USA. FWIW I'm against capital punishment because it's proven to be ineffective as a deterrent. That doesn't mean I'm not happy to help those who want to die for their cause, to do so. Looking at it dispassionately, the long term interest is probably served best by letting them immolate themselves, then the rest of humanity can move forward. This medieval mind-set is nothing but a cancer on humanity and needs eradicating. Atb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Their country - their rules. If they want to slaughter each other, I say good luck to them and let's sell them guns and ammo! I object to them exporting their mentalism to the West, but they're free to have a ball at home. Your empathy for your fellow man is heart warming on the Lord's day. Big boys' game, big boys' rules. And it's not the Lord's day out there - well not the Christian Lord any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I have absolutely no time for religion or those spouting religious nonsense of any creed, period. Hamster I'm sorry but you are so blinkered its laughable. Iran executed around 700 people last year. Heinous crimes such as "enmity against God" and "corruption on earth" etc etc. Even a basic search reveals the fallacy of your POV. I suppose living safe and sound in Canterbury helps, but the list for the death penalty in Iran is astounding. Yet you still have the temerity to compare it to the USA. FWIW I'm against capital punishment because it's proven to be ineffective as a deterrent. That doesn't mean I'm not happy to help those who want to die for their cause, to do so. Looking at it dispassionately, the long term interest is probably served best by letting them immolate themselves, then the rest of humanity can move forward. This medieval mind-set is nothing but a cancer on humanity and needs eradicating. Atb It's very effective as a repeat offence deterrent though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Big boys' game, big boys' rules. And it's not the Lord's day out there - well not the Christian Lord any way. What alot of tosh. And, thanks for your in depth theological knowledge concerning the Sabbath in the Muslim world. As far as am aware the majority of pw members are posting in UK which retains an established church that is Christian . I know I am across the Irish sea but I think we are all still operating on GMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 What alot of tosh. And, thanks for your in depth theological knowledge concerning the Sabbath in the Muslim world. As far as am aware the majority of pw members are posting in UK which retains an established church that is Christian . I know I am across the Irish sea but I think we are all still operating on GMT. At the moment, for how long is open to anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I have absolutely no time for religion or those spouting religious nonsense of any creed, period. Hamster I'm sorry but you are so blinkered its laughable. Iran executed around 700 people last year. Heinous crimes such as "enmity against God" and "corruption on earth" etc etc. Even a basic search reveals the fallacy of your POV. I suppose living safe and sound in Canterbury helps, but the list for the death penalty in Iran is astounding. Yet you still have the temerity to compare it to the USA. FWIW I'm against capital punishment because it's proven to be ineffective as a deterrent. That doesn't mean I'm not happy to help those who want to die for their cause, to do so. Looking at it dispassionately, the long term interest is probably served best by letting them immolate themselves, then the rest of humanity can move forward. This medieval mind-set is nothing but a cancer on humanity and needs eradicating. Atb Sorry if I gave the impression that I'm defending Iran's autocratic regime, viewed in isolation they remain a heinous stain on much of human morality. But here we're discussing standards of morality and codes of conduct et al. If I dare bring America into the equation it's quite simply because I refuse to be blinkered and will not turn a blind eye to their crimes. Some Islamic countries are responsible for a great many human deaths but even a basic search will reveal it is almost entirely directed at their own and within their own continent , we couldn't even begin to pretend that this is the case with the Western world though again a basic search will reveal not only their propensity to cause non Western deaths by the millions but you also can't deny the footprints of their democracy . Sure it's dressed up as defending our freedom against people who hate our way of life but a drone that executes a bearded fellow without trial is still execution, the tragic part that is unfortunately not laughable is the calamitous number of wholly innocent people that get killed in hospitals and schools which are referred to as collateral damage. I have said this before but those who wish the ME would disappear in a nuke cloud ought to remember that they would swap innocent "numbers killed" places with your righteous selves in a heart beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Hamster, don't kid yourself that they only perpetrate atrocities within their own borders. Iran has supplied, trained and equipped thousands of insurgents over the years. The difference is that in the west, when we find out about it we are safe to shout, protest and debate it. Try that in one of the theocracies' and see how long you keep your head. The tactic of war by proxy is not a western invention. Atb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Hammy, without detracting from the main point of your argument, you could substitute the picture of democracy with countless good images such as free education, healthcare, arts, science, literature, etc. You don't need to resort to daft pictures to defend your argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 What alot of tosh. And, thanks for your in depth theological knowledge concerning the Sabbath in the Muslim world. As far as am aware the majority of pw members are posting in UK which retains an established church that is Christian . I know I am across the Irish sea but I think we are all still operating on GMT. Somebody from Ireland spouting off about religion. Hardcore religious nutters in power? Love of religious parades? Public punishments of people? Have I described Saudi Arabia or Northern Ireland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Hamster, don't kid yourself that they only perpetrate atrocities within their own borders. Iran has supplied, trained and equipped thousands of insurgents over the years. The difference is that in the west, when we find out about it we are safe to shout, protest and debate it. Try that in one of the theocracies' and see how long you keep your head. The tactic of war by proxy is not a western invention. Atb I don't understand sorry, what do you mean by insurgents ? To me that's just one more of the invented slurs that are so broad as to be meaningless. Nobody would have needed to train insurgents (whatever that means) had it not been for Western fake wars in the first place. Which is the greater atrocity, invading two sovereign nations and all but collapsing their infrastructure and killing a million of them or executing 700 of your own people or arming people resisting ethnic cleansing ? I am perfectly prepared to discuss this in a fair way so long as you don't cloud the issue with made up slurs when you run out of answers. Hammy, without detracting from the main point of your argument, you could substitute the picture of democracy with countless good images such as free education, healthcare, arts, science, literature, etc. You don't need to resort to daft pictures to defend your argument I could, but in the context of Libya, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan it wouldn't be very accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Somebody from Ireland spouting off about religion. Hardcore religious nutters in power? Love of religious parades? Public punishments of people? Have I described Saudi Arabia or Northern Ireland? I doint remember the government having public executions in NI. Like it or not the people in power are voted for in free and fair elections unlike in Saudi Arabia. Do they not have church and other religious parades in England. ? What government organised Public punishments are there in NI. ? Edited January 3, 2016 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I'm sure you have a lot of filters in place. Facts like Libya arming the IRA and others means to me they are fair game. I was at the sharp end and I removed the rose tinted blinkers years ago. The one good thing about 9/11 was that it was instrumental in removing a large source of cash to the IRA from the USA. The rest as they say is history. Afghanistan was under the control of the Taliban. They gave aid and sanctuary to Al Qaeda. Fair game as well IMO. ISIS were but a more rabid part of Al Qaeda. If you look deep enough there were unpleasant plans and ambition's afoot, that could not go un-countered without dire consequences to us all. You may chose to believe what you like. Thankfully your choices about what to believe won't effect me or the rest of us. Personally I'm glad western security forces and governments are not afraid to do the things that need doing. In a previous career as a young man I was part of that effort. I believed we were right then and I think we're still right now. Atb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Somebody from Ireland spouting off about religion. Hardcore religious nutters in power? Love of religious parades? Public punishments of people? Have I described Saudi Arabia or Northern Ireland? I see your ignorant in both senses of the word. Unlike other posts, I won't credit your garbage with a response it doesn't deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I see your ignorant in both senses of the word. Unlike other posts, I won't credit your garbage with a response it doesn't deserve. Some times the truth hurts . Harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint1 Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Religion is the scourge of this world and some worse than others. Join the BHA and set yourself free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Religion is the scourge of this world and some worse than others. Join the BHA and set yourself free. Religion isn't the scourge at all, it's the people in those religions that make up the rules and force them on people that are the scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Oh really. I don't think we send our troops to commit war crimes. Not that this has been proven, but I don't think it's part of the job description to totally ignore humanitarian law and the Geneva Conventions in theatre. Let's not go there. It a completely different issue. Or start a new thread. Just out of interest, what are you a Dr of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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