Advice on which rifle, please.

[OffAim]

Although I have been a shotgun user for over 30 years and a longstanding BASC member, I have never really investigated the FAC route and it has been a long time since I used a small bore rifle; other than Weirauch air rifles.

 

I am now getting a bit bored with lugging two 12G; cartridges and pigeon decoys across sticky, muddy fields, only to find the flock has switched direction.....again.

 

So, I am shortly about to apply for an FAC as I would have support from some farmers, but I haven't a clue which type and calibre to go for.......I am also considering joining a rifle club.

 

I would appreciate some advice and comments on a few matters.

 

I intend to buy a secondhand rifle, but I am unsure about which type is suitable for both vermin and club shooting, particularly as I cannot find information withing the Police Guidelines in respect of magazine capacities (shotguns are limited, in my mind there) and amounts of ammo I would be permitted to hold.....250??

 

I believe most semi-autos can be single shot (Ie, without a magazine in place) which may suit club rules; but a magazine would obviously be helpful when vermin shooting.

 

I had a brief discussion with my Firearms Officer (but forgot to ask about magazines) as to which calibre would be suiitable and he thought a .17HMR would be good.

 

However, I think the .17HMR may have too much range for where I want to shoot as I always want to know where the round will end (and too much velocity for club shooting) and I am favouring .22LR.......besides the .17HMR seems quite expensive compared with .22.

 

There are so many available, but my initial thoughts are Ruger semi-auto; Remington semi-auto; or an Anschutz.............threaded for moderator, plus scope rails/grooves.

 

Anyone have some ideas for me to consider, please?

 

Thanks, AL

 

 

[welshwarrior]

What do you intend to shoot?

 

It sounds like small vermin and indoor targets so a 22 lr is probably best but no good for deer and 1,000yards.

 

As to knowing where the bullets going you won't with a powder burner if you must get FAC air.

 

Sounds like you need to sit down with someone who shoots similar and get a bit of a download and possibly have a play.

[wymberley]

It depends upon your outlook. If you prefer to chop and change as you go along, so be it. I f you fancy buying one which you'll keep and use from the moment you start until you finally pack it all in, you already have the answer - the last one you specified.

[OffAim]

What do you intend to shoot?

 

It sounds like small vermin and indoor targets so a 22 lr is probably best but no good for deer and 1,000yards.

 

As to knowing where the bullets going you won't with a powder burner if you must get FAC air.

 

Sounds like you need to sit down with someone who shoots similar and get a bit of a download and possibly have a play.

Thanks......You are right...small vermin and target..............for fox, I have used my 12G shotgun with Winchester SuperX 00 Buckshot.

 

I was thinking that the .17HMR range was much further than the .22LR and more likely to be displaced by wind.

 

The last time I used a powder .22 the rifle was a pump action with LRs and tube magazine; (Winchester? Just like those that were found in galleries using Shorts)

 

It depends upon your outlook. If you prefer to chop and change as you go along, so be it. I f you fancy buying one which you'll keep and use from the moment you start until you finally pack it all in, you already have the answer - the last one you specified.

Thanks, You are probably correct about it being a keeper..........Are Anschutz .22 mostly BA?

[wymberley]

 

 

Thanks, You are probably correct about it being a keeper..........Are Anschutz .22 mostly BA?

Yep. Dependent upon the nature of the club, of course, you might just find that a BA goes down better than a self loader.

[OffAim]

Yep. Dependent upon the nature of the club, of course, you might just find that a BA goes down better than a self loader.

I thought you might say that......the nearest one to me only permits single shot rifles.........

 

Still, if I can shoot a pair of pigeons in flight with my Webley .410 3 Shot BA, I guess I should be able to manage the rifle bolt quickly enough for small vermin.

 

Do semi-auto .22s 'clang' when they eject and self load?

 

Firing three quick shots with my Breda 12G 5 shot semi-auto sounded like tanks rattling into battle and WW3 had started.

[Livefast123]

There are many semi automatic .22lr that whilst not quite as accurate as a bolt action are more than accurate enough for vermin control and target shooting. Some that spring to mind are CZ 511, Marlin Mod 60, Remington 597, Ruger 10/22. Depending on your club, they may have turning targets or run LSR competitions that semi's were built for. Anschutz make a semi auto, the 520 or 525 but i'm not sure if they are 'proper' Anschutz.

 

Some semi's can be ammo fussy but as long as you keep them clean should cause no bother. The CZ511 I had was the subsonic version which cycled most ammo. I cut it down to 14" and put a SAK on, was grest for field and club and you can pick them up cheap.

 

Forget about magazine capacity, nobody bats an eyelid. Most come with a 5 or 10 round mag but aftermarket can be had up to 25 - 30 rounds for the 10-22 for instance if you were taking part in comps.

 

There is the 'noise' of the bolt cycling but to be honest I never notice it anymore.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Livefast123

[OffAim]

Thanks for that, Livefast.......

 

It appears that I'm not wrong in thinking .22LR would be the best way forward for me.....and besides, I would prefer use a round that had less chance of going straight through and onwards, which I think a .17HMR could do with rabbits, crows and rooks, although I appreciate the .17 round can be more destructive than .22LR.......correct me please if I am wrong.

 

Although the range is different, my experience with .177 and .22 air rifles on the same types of quarry always showed that the .177 had gone through (albeit with minimal damage) but not necessarily dropping it where it was hit.....the .22 was more positive with an immediate knockdown.....ie, stopping power.

[mickmep]

why not apply for both .22lr & .17hmr ?

I would find out what disciplines are shot at the club you're interested in joining, a semi automatic will be no use if they only shoot prone.

 

you can't compare the rimfire calibres to air rifles, I've never had over penetration with the .17, its definitely more 'destructive' as you put it above.

 

dependant on your licensing area you may get fox on the hmr, sussex do allow this. but .22lr is not considered a fox round by sussex.

 

as you are aware the hmr is much more expensive to feed.

 

put in for minimum of 1000 ammo allowance (i got 3000 lr on first grant), more if you intend to regularly target shoot.

you cant use expanding ammo for target shooting, at the clubs I shoot at anyway, and cant use solid for vermin control, so you'll need to posses both.

 

and don't forget your moderators.

[OffAim]

why not apply for both .22lr & .17hmr ?

I would find out what disciplines are shot at the club you're interested in joining, a semi automatic will be no use if they only shoot prone.

 

you can't compare the rimfire calibres to air rifles, I've never had over penetration with the .17, its definitely more 'destructive' as you put it above.

 

dependant on your licensing area you may get fox on the hmr, sussex do allow this. but .22lr is not considered a fox round by sussex.

 

as you are aware the hmr is much more expensive to feed.

 

put in for minimum of 1000 ammo allowance (i got 3000 lr on first grant), more if you intend to regularly target shoot.

you cant use expanding ammo for target shooting, at the clubs I shoot at anyway, and cant use solid for vermin control, so you'll need to posses both.

 

and don't forget your moderators.

Suffolk Area.

 

I think the firearms officer reckoned .17hmr and .22 was OK for fox, but as I was handing in two SGs for destruction, I had other things on my mind..........but I'm not too bothered about fox, because I rarely get to shoot at one that is standing still, which is why I use the 12G and the 00 Buckshot.....they are definite for an immediate kill.............never had more than three of the nine pellets miss.

 

But I take your point about talking to the clubs...........and shooting prone, which I have never done much of for a long time...........It's not easy with a Weirauch under-lever!

 

Thanks for the tip on ammo quantities............I was aware of moderators.

 

As I will be trading in a 12G shotgun which has some value, I suppose I could go for two secondhand rifles if the .17HMR isn't much more expensive than a good .22.

Edited February 26, 2016 by OffAim

[kent]

Although I have been a shotgun user for over 30 years and a longstanding BASC member, I have never really investigated the FAC route and it has been a long time since I used a small bore rifle; other than Weirauch air rifles.

 

I am now getting a bit bored with lugging two 12G; cartridges and pigeon decoys across sticky, muddy fields, only to find the flock has switched direction.....again.

 

So, I am shortly about to apply for an FAC as I would have support from some farmers, but I haven't a clue which type and calibre to go for.......I am also considering joining a rifle club.

 

I would appreciate some advice and comments on a few matters.

 

I intend to buy a secondhand rifle, but I am unsure about which type is suitable for both vermin and club shooting, particularly as I cannot find information withing the Police Guidelines in respect of magazine capacities (shotguns are limited, in my mind there) and amounts of ammo I would be permitted to hold.....250??

 

I believe most semi-autos can be single shot (Ie, without a magazine in place) which may suit club rules; but a magazine would obviously be helpful when vermin shooting.

 

I had a brief discussion with my Firearms Officer (but forgot to ask about magazines) as to which calibre would be suiitable and he thought a .17HMR would be good.

 

However, I think the .17HMR may have too much range for where I want to shoot as I always want to know where the round will end (and too much velocity for club shooting) and I am favouring .22LR.......besides the .17HMR seems quite expensive compared with .22.

 

There are so many available, but my initial thoughts are Ruger semi-auto; Remington semi-auto; or an Anschutz.............threaded for moderator, plus scope rails/grooves.

 

Anyone have some ideas for me to consider, please?

 

Thanks, AL

 

 

For shooting pigeon?

 

You should know were any round will end up safely into the backstop!

 

Safety wise there is little difference in any rifle handled wrong. 22 lr has killed at 600 yards and 308 is perfectly safe shot into a good backstop

[OffAim]

Thanks everyone..........all comments and advice duly noted.

 

Another question, though..........

 

Can I store a rifle in the same secure cabinet as shotguns, or do the FOs want extra security for the rifle?

 

I have previously looked at trigger locks, but the ones I have seen aren't IMO worth fitting...........because they don't cover the trigger guard screws........and anyway, if someone got into the cabinet, they could obviously take the rifle with the lock on it.

 

What I was looking for is some sort of clamp that is fixed to the cabinet which holds the rifle in place when a scope is fitted, but haven't yet spotted one.

 

Anyone got some ideas, please?

 

AL

[Redgum]

Your fine putting your rifle in with your shotguns, the cabinet will be suitable if it has met other security checks for you shotgun license. I was in the same boat as you once upon a time, a long time shotgun license holder then suddenly I came across a situation were a farmer buddy needed rabbits slaying. I used his .22lr and that was that. Entering into the rifle world is a big side step from the shotgun world but is not difficult, there is a little more red tape and hassle, for example buying and selling guns is easier with shotguns because of all the variation pen work with rifles and ammunition quantities etc. My first rifle was a CZ .22lr and to be honest that would be your best move to, I then had a .17hmr which was replaced with a .22 hornet for many reasons. Be warned, its very addictive, I just wanted to shoot a few rabbits but a few years later and I have a 243 and 308 and the animals I shoot are often in the need of two people to lift. I started reloading after the first 20 rnds I ran my first centrefire in with ( of course you can't reload rimfire ammo) and that has saved me a stack over the years.

[kyska]

An extra safe for ammo is required, either totally separate or a top locker cabinet.

 

Have you looked at or considered a .22WMR?

[OffAim]

Your fine putting your rifle in with your shotguns, the cabinet will be suitable if it has met other security checks for you shotgun license. I was in the same boat as you once upon a time, a long time shotgun license holder then suddenly I came across a situation were a farmer buddy needed rabbits slaying. I used his .22lr and that was that. Entering into the rifle world is a big side step from the shotgun world but is not difficult, there is a little more red tape and hassle, for example buying and selling guns is easier with shotguns because of all the variation pen work with rifles and ammunition quantities etc. My first rifle was a CZ .22lr and to be honest that would be your best move to, I then had a .17hmr which was replaced with a .22 hornet for many reasons. Be warned, its very addictive, I just wanted to shoot a few rabbits but a few years later and I have a 243 and 308 and the animals I shoot are often in the need of two people to lift. I started reloading after the first 20 rnds I ran my first centrefire in with ( of course you can't reload rimfire ammo) and that has saved me a stack over the years.

My 5 gun cabinet is approved by FO for my shotguns, so it should be OK for rifle.............As it happens I have a spare 4 gun shorter cabinet as well, which I was going to dispose of, but if I can find a suitable location in the house, I suppose I could use that for ammo...........but it seems a bit daft something of that size for 1000 rounds of .22LR or so......and my main gun cabinet is in the best place already.

 

But I have plenty of lockable cabinets around the house.........(and hideaway places where nobody would dream of looking)..........I don't intend holding many as I have two suppliers within a few minutes drive.

 

Yep, I am aware that rimfire can't be reloaded, but as .22LR are signifcantly cheaper per shot than shotgun ammo which I don't reload anyway, I don't think I will be too bothered about cost.

 

 

 

An extra safe for ammo is required, either totally separate or a top locker cabinet.

 

Have you looked at or considered a .22WMR?

Yep, I was aware of that.........Never liked it in the same cabinet though, not even shotgun cartridges.

 

I always think that a locked 'box' is somewhere obvious which would get attacked first...........and then drawers, locked or not..........my cabinet keys are kept in various hidden places and I change them regularly, in fact I have one place which I won't disclose here, where if you walked into one room, you could see where they were hidden, but never think of looking there.

 

No, not behind a picture......

 

I'll have a look at .22WMR.

 

I think I may have to list the possible rifles on the FAC application and also take FO's advice................. .22LR is what I have used before which is why I am familiar with them to some degree (although in the 80s I tried a .303 at a well known range as a guest).......and a Browning .22 pistol.

 

The three rifle and pistol shooters at a company I used to work for took the pee out of me for being a shotgunner (they were Bisleyites as well).........they reckoned it was easy and suggested I try their discipline, which I did and surprised them..........and then they tried clays as my guests............