nighteye Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 The OP asked for opinions , I gave mine , you proceeded to nitpick at my statements , which were in the vein of your round doesn't need to be grouping thumb nail sizes to be capable of humane dispatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 As I said "around" and considering that the .22 is "around" twice the weight of a very very easily blown off target .17 round , it makes sense to me . If I am needing to I can use .22 shorts , .22 subs .22 hp , .22 standard and velocitors or stingers . How accurate do you really have to be with over 100ft/lbs at 100 yards on small vermin ? This is why most fac holders who hunt have at least one .22 in the cabinet There are plenty doing that with subs and have been for many years. Power is nothing important for bunny. Airgun off ticket do well enough with only 12 ft lb! Heck to get 12 ft lb on target with an lr then you would have to be very good with a massive addition of freaky luck As I said "around" and considering that the .22 is "around" twice the weight of a very very easily blown off target .17 round , it makes sense to me . If I am needing to I can use .22 shorts , .22 subs .22 hp , .22 standard and velocitors or stingers . How accurate do you really have to be with over 100ft/lbs at 100 yards on small vermin ? This is why most fac holders who hunt have at least one .22 in the cabinet There are plenty doing that with subs and have been for many years. Power is nothing important for bunny. Airgun off ticket do well enough with only 12 ft lb! Heck to get 12 ft lb on target with an lr then you would have to be very good with a massive addition of freaky luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted March 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hi Chaps Thanks for all off your thoughts and sharing your experience, it's great to have so many opinions. I have a question, if I want a .22 centre fire for fox,vermin and Muntjac ( I can't see me being set up for larger deer handling), can I just put in .22 CF on my application and decide which one when FEO come to process, or do I have to specify now? I know that for example .22 WMR has to be specified not just as .22 rf. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) The OP asked for opinions , I gave mine , you proceeded to nitpick at my statements , which were in the vein of your round doesn't need to be grouping thumb nail sizes to be capable of humane dispatch Fine, but opinion based on fallacy is no use to anyone, wind drift on .22lr is FAR worse on the vast majority of .22lr compared to HMR, you went out of your way to suggest HMR was terrible in crosswinds, when actually it is much better than .22lr, therefore giving a false impression/opinion. So, .22lr is around the energy of HMR, and HMR is around the energy of WMR and WMR is around the energy of 17WSM and 17 WSM is around the energy of Hornet, and Hornet is around the energy of etc., etc. The difference in energy, accuracy and range of HMR is significant compared with .22lr, even HV .22lr. It isn't nit picking, it is significant, a .22lr HV is not up to the task of a 17 V-Max HMR, they aren't around the same! "How accurate do you really have to be with over 100ft/lbs at 100 yards on small vermin ???" I simply can't believe you said that! The answer is VERY. I can blast the **** off most small vermin with a .308 and they will run/crawl away, it isn't often energy that kills per say, its putting that energy in the right place!! It is certainly possible that a 12 ft lb air rifle may just have the energy to stop a rabbit at 100 yards, if you put it in EXACTLY the right place, but there lies the problem with the .22lr, it is considerably easier to put a HMR in the right place in every type of weather condition than a .22lr, and when it arrives it will have far more energy as well, and generally, if using a V-Max, be far more destructive, so chances of stopping are dramatically higher with HMR. If you think all anyone needs is a .22lr and a .223 then you are welcome to your opinion, but I don't feel it appropriate to misrepresent the facts! Edited March 20, 2016 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hi Chaps Thanks for all off your thoughts and sharing your experience, it's great to have so many opinions. I have a question, if I want a .22 centre fire for fox,vermin and Muntjac ( I can't see me being set up for larger deer handling), can I just put in .22 CF on my application and decide which one when FEO come to process, or do I have to specify now? I know that for example .22 WMR has to be specified not just as .22 rf. Thanks Probably an email/phone call to your region best on this one. Some regions may well be fine with this, others may well want specifics!. ..........and as for the .22RF debate, that's yet another can of worms!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil w Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Fine, but opinion based on fallacy is no use to anyone, wind drift on .22lr is FAR worse on the vast majority of .22lr compared to HMR, you went out of your way to suggest HMR was terrible in crosswinds, when actually it is much better than .22lr, therefore giving a false impression/opinion. So, .22lr is around the energy of HMR, and HMR is around the energy of WMR and WMR is around the energy of 17WSM and 17 WSM is around the energy of Hornet, and Hornet is around the energy of etc., etc. The difference in energy, accuracy and range of HMR is significant compared with .22lr, even HV .22lr. It isn't nit picking, it is significant, a .22lr HV is not up to the task of a 17 V-Max HMR, they aren't around the same! "How accurate do you really have to be with over 100ft/lbs at 100 yards on small vermin ???" I simply can't believe you said that! The answer is VERY. I can blast the **** off most small vermin with a .308 and they will run/crawl away, it isn't often energy that kills per say, its putting that energy in the right place!! It is certainly possible that a 12 ft lb air rifle may just have the energy to stop a rabbit at 100 yards, if you put it in EXACTLY the right place, but there lies the problem with the .22lr, it is considerably easier to put a HMR in the right place in every type of weather condition than a .22lr, and when it arrives it will have far more energy as well, and generally, if using a V-Max, be far more destructive, so chances of stopping are dramatically higher with HMR. If you think all anyone needs is a .22lr and a .223 then you are welcome to your opinion, but I don't feel it appropriate to misrepresent the facts! Why would you shoot at small vermin "your words". With a .308 in the first place . Edited March 20, 2016 by neil w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted March 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Probably an email/phone call to your region best on this one. Some regions may well be fine with this, others may well want specifics!. ..........and as for the .22RF debate, that's yet another can of worms!. Sounds good but trying to contact my region is verging on impossible... The local gunshop told me that they won't accept WMR as just .22rf ... Could be another example of regions making their own rules, like .17 HMR for fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 For your needs I personally would apply for a 22lr, 17hmr and 223 if you are only shooting vermin/muntjac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted March 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 For your needs I personally would apply for a 22lr, 17hmr and 223 if you are only shooting vermin/muntjac. Thanks, that's pretty much where I think I have got to, I'm trying to decide whether I can drop one of the rim-fires to save space in cabinet, possibly live without .22 LR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Why would you shoot at small vermin "your words". With a .308 in the first place . :lol: My word was CAN! But, when I'm out after the Boar with my .308 and notice a baby mouse in the grass 100 yards away its only natural to have a go, and when they are only one inch long if I pull the shot a tad I will remove its back end, and babys having the energy they do will then scarper. Edited March 21, 2016 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Thanks, that's pretty much where I think I have got to, I'm trying to decide whether I can drop one of the rim-fires to save space in cabinet, possibly live without .22 LR. You have got to decide what you need, only you can do that. I have a use for .22lr, HMR and WMR, etc etc. The .22LR is a cracking calibre and I wouldn't be without mine (I have 2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) If you want a reduction in the number of rifles you own, get it down to one for you . Get a .22250 if i think about all i got, the .22250 is the one i could not do without, you dont need another rifle and if it was not for flaming BDS and the .240.0 nonsence for Roe deer in England. i could do even better without that dumb rule. Down load it with hornet .224 heads for table rabbits etc, 50s far all round and 55 game kings if you feel the need for roe ot 70 grain speers if you are paranoid. .22250 do all do well. thats your answer right there. Edited March 21, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted March 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 If you want a reduction in the number of rifles you own, get it down to one for you . Get a .22250 if i think about all i got, the .22250 is the one i could not do without, you dont need another rifle and if it was not for flaming BDS and the .240.0 nonsence for Roe deer in England. i could do even better without that dumb rule. Down load it with hornet .224 heads for table rabbits etc, 50s far all round and 55 game kings if you feel the need for roe ot 70 grain speers if you are paranoid. .22250 do all do well. thats your answer right there. Tony, thank you, this is great. Are the lighter loads you refer to commercially available? I don't really have the time or space to start reloading.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Tony, thank you, this is great. Are the lighter loads you refer to commercially available? I don't really have the time or space to start reloading.. No! The 22-250 was developed as a hot 22, if you want low its home brew time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Tony, thank you, this is great. Are the lighter loads you refer to commercially available? I don't really have the time or space to start reloading.. Yes as dekers says you need to reload, can get away with a lee loader or hand press no need for a room dedicated for reloading. Will all fit in a shoe box literaly. Time to reload well its probably quicker than traveling 20 miles each way to buy ammo and cheaper pluss it will generaly give more accuracy. 35 grain bullets for vermin/ rabbits if you want the meat load it down, or load it normal for fox or deer. Reloading is cheaper than another two or three rifles, ok its a compromise, but its down to 17hmr performance if you load it , pretty much perfect fox gun and its deer capable all be it species and location specific. Edited March 21, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Rather than mess about surely its cheaper and easier to fit a larger cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted March 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Dekers and Tony and everyone else This is brilliant, thank you, it gives me all the information that i need. I will put in for all 3 (.22LR/.17HMR/22.250) to cover all eventualities and good reasons and in buying them one at a time i can figure out exactly what i truly need. Thank you so much for your help, its now just a waiting game! Rather than mess about surely its cheaper and easier to fit a larger cabinet. I cant really get much bigger a cabinet in the space i have which is the ideal spot, some shotguns may be re-homed and the air rifle may be clamped into an other cupboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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