scotchalan Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Hi!! Looking for some help. Going to buy a new precharged airgun and to keep the cost down at first I can fill my New (Daystate Air Ranger) at work with NITROGEN but not sure if you can fill it with this. Can someone help me with this problem thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 I would advise against it. It will very probably blow up and kill you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 very very silly idea,just fill it with ya bog standard air mate,if ya want more power ,get a fac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Having a laugh, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Nitrogen is fine, but dont substitute for any other gas with the exception of air. I run a cylinder filling plant, and have easy access to Nitrogen, which is clean and dry, which is therefore better for the gun than air. The article which has been posted refers to Oxygen, which should NEVER be used, not even once just to try it. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 For Christ sake, they are called air guns for a reason, they run on air. They are not called 'thecheapestfillwilldoitguns' Don't be a **** for the sake of a £2 filling charge. On the article I have linked it says never fill the gun with anything apart from air. It says this for a reason! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Just read the article - just imagine what would have happened if the fella had been smoking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Odd as it seems but compressed air is 78% nitrogen. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerico Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Will there be those lil sausages at your funeral? I like those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I must admit I smile everytime this comes up, it's really not worth it. I can see that you only have a couple of posts and I assume you are fairly new to the airgun world so this seems like a relevant question. Sorry if it all seems a little harsh but listen to the others advice and leave well alone with anything except "air". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 G.M. has already pointed out that AIR is 70 odd % NITROGEN. The balance is aprox 17% OXYGEN, and the balance is made up of a host of other gases not relevant to this debate. The thing that stops your PCP from dieseling each time you fill it with AIR is the fact that the NITROGEN content prevents combustion which comes from the oil used to lubricate the gun acting as fuel. Hence oil, 100% oxygen and high pressure = very big bang. Therefore remove the oxygen completeley and substitute 100% NITROGEN, and the situation becomes even safer. The gas is clean and dry, against compressed air for divers which is reletivley clean and quite wet, as a degree of moisture is left in the air to prevent divers or B A set users getting a sore throat caused by breathing air which is too dry. I dont think that anyone would knowingly or willingly store their airgun with water inside it, as this causes rust, yet you have no choice if you use compressed air from the dive shop. My own Daystate PH6 has performed well for many years, so has McFs air rifle and those of the dozens of satisfied customers to who my company provide a NITROGEN filling service. Filling from a cylinder at work may however not get you the results that you expect, as the host cylinder will probably be filled to 200 bar from full, which will mean that you will not get 200bar in your recipient cylinder. DO NOT FILL YOUR AIR GUN WITH OXYGEN...YOU WILL COME TO GRIEF...GUARANTEED!!! WEBBER Technical Director of a well known cylinder gas company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 G.M. has already pointed out that AIR is 70 odd % NITROGEN. The balance is aprox 17% OXYGEN, and the balance is made up of a host of other gases not relevant to this debate. WEBBER Technical Director of a well known cylinder gas company. I know for common science knowledge that air is ~70% nitrogen, but at the same time I wouldn't mess about with something I don't know enough about...I love my guns too much! Out of interest...Webber...your firms not had a lot of press recently has it...Aztec Chemicals per-chance?? Were you refilling again at work!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6719281.stm Couple of my mates work down the road...said the heat was amazing...even at distance. Many cars were totally wrecked but my mate told me of one BMW which looked fine one side and the paint totally melted off the other, imagine the owners face when he got back to it....worse still if he just got in the good side and drove off thinking he was lucky!! B) B) B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Sorry to disapoint, but Aztek was nothing to do with me guv onest! I believe that Aztek were operating an aerosol filling plant, these are notorious for going bang, although I am not aware as to the cause of their spectacular fire. We are located a little further north. Nitrogen for this application is absoluteley safe, and better for the gun. The downside is that it is a little more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I believe that Aztek were operating an aerosol filling plant, these are notorious for going bang, although I am not aware as to the cause of their spectacular fire. Not wanting to go off topic for too long...but apparently it was something to do with a can shredding machine?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchalan Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 G.M. has already pointed out that AIR is 70 odd % NITROGEN. The balance is aprox 17% OXYGEN, and the balance is made up of a host of other gases not relevant to this debate. The thing that stops your PCP from dieseling each time you fill it with AIR is the fact that the NITROGEN content prevents combustion which comes from the oil used to lubricate the gun acting as fuel. Hence oil, 100% oxygen and high pressure = very big bang. Therefore remove the oxygen completeley and substitute 100% NITROGEN, and the situation becomes even safer. The gas is clean and dry, against compressed air for divers which is reletivley clean and quite wet, as a degree of moisture is left in the air to prevent divers or B A set users getting a sore throat caused by breathing air which is too dry. I dont think that anyone would knowingly or willingly store their airgun with water inside it, as this causes rust, yet you have no choice if you use compressed air from the dive shop. My own Daystate PH6 has performed well for many years, so has McFs air rifle and those of the dozens of satisfied customers to who my company provide a NITROGEN filling service. Filling from a cylinder at work may however not get you the results that you expect, as the host cylinder will probably be filled to 200 bar from full, which will mean that you will not get 200bar in your recipient cylinder. DO NOT FILL YOUR AIR GUN WITH OXYGEN...YOU WILL COME TO GRIEF...GUARANTEED!!! WEBBER Technical Director of a well known cylinder gas company. Thanks for all your help? i thought that you can use it but nice to here it from someone else. I thought that nitrogen was beter and dryer that air for your gun. CHEERS !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Webber (BOC?) I can appreciate the fact that you are probably very knowledgable in your field and you know what you can get away with. However I believe that publicising this sort of thing on an open forum can cause people to take silly risks. Some people will always do silly things rgardless of what you say but some people can be warned off. Hope you understand what I am saying and hope no offemce has been taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Snakebite No offence taken. You are entitled to your opinion. A question was asked, and I stepped in with absolute factual correctness, unlike some of the other replies which were less than accurate and bordering on hysterical. Throughout my replies I have made it quite clear that OXYGEN SHOULD NOT BE USED The information that I have given is already in the public domane, and is freely available if you know where to look. Nitrogen is one of the most abundant substances on the planet, and one of the safest. The British compressed and liquified gas industry has the best safety record on the planet, that has not come about by the industry and its workforce adopting a cavalier approach either to safety or product application You may not know that the pneumatic tyres on aircraft, racing cars and some heavy construction equipment are filled with NITROGEN, due to the advantages and safety aspects that NITROGEN offers over compressed air. I am of the opinion that the main reason PCPs are charged with air is the fact that it is cheap and easily available, not that it is the best product for the job, because it aint. Finally, I don't work for BOC; following their take over by their German rivals Linde they can't afford me, but they never could, although I do know several of their key personnel. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Used to do a lot of welding and Nitrogen was used because of its total inertness. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I believe that Aztek were operating an aerosol filling plant, An arsole filling plant was that? B) B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I believe that Aztek were operating an aerosol filling plant, An arsole filling plant was that? B) B) How old are you?!? :o B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I believe that Aztek were operating an aerosol filling plant, An arsole filling plant was that? How old are you?!? OLD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I believe that Aztek were operating an aerosol filling plant, An arsole filling plant was that? How old are you?!? OLD You’re only as old as the woman you feel. Just don’t let Lorraine know about her. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyjaimz Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 I did a Health and safety course earlier this year and one of the guys worked for BOC. He told me about a bloke on his site, who filled his diving bottle with helium to put into his rifles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I did a Health and safety course earlier this year and one of the guys worked for BOC. He told me about a bloke on his site, who filled his diving bottle with helium to put into his rifles Couldn’t comment on that other than to wonder if this made it better to compress… …don’t know. I do know that divers use Helium for very deep diving due to the fact that it prevents nitrogen bubbles forming in the blood, but whether it has a use in airguns is debateable as it is much lighter than air. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Hi!! Looking for some help. Going to buy a new precharged airgun and to keep the cost down at first I can fill my New (Daystate Air Ranger) at work with NITROGEN but not sure if you can fill it with this. Can someone help me with this problem thanks. If I can be of help plz PM me, I have worked with Notrogen in the Oilfield for almost 20 years and would like to think I know a little about the stuff, I supply Nitrogen Pumping People all over the world! dont get to hung up, Nitrogen is AIR. Or to put it more scientifically, AIR is 80% nitrogen. But whereas the oxygen (18%?) is notable for breathing and burning, and the CO2 has various socio-political ecological significance and is breathed by plants, the nitrogen doesn't really do much most of the time. It's like the neutral-medium thats why we use it in the Oilfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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