Homeloaded 243

[v-max]

Hello i was wondering if a 243 loaded with say 70g bullet is legal for roe etc in england.I know it's legal in scotland but not sure in england would i be right in thinking that it's to be 100g bullet for all specie's of deer in england.

[pin]

I was corrected on this one recently, I don't home load or have a .243, just reciting what I was told (I had assumed 100g was minimum).

 

For deer of any species a minimum calibre of .240 inches (.236 inches in Northern Ireland) and a minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds is the legal requirement.

 

From the post where I got it wrong PeltMan suggested there was a 75g bullet in .243 by winchester which met the legal requirement.

[Dunkield]

as the man says..

 

"For deer of any species a minimum calibre of .240 inches (.236 inches in Northern Ireland) and a minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds is the legal requirement. In Northern Ireland the minimum bullet weight is 100 grains"

[Graham M]

Hello i was wondering if a 243 loaded with say 70g bullet is legal for roe etc in england.I know it's legal in scotland but not sure in england would i be right in thinking that it's to be 100g bullet for all specie's of deer in england.

Why? you're not thinking about using a 70grn V-max for Roe are you. :unsure:

G.M.

[grasshopper]

DSC 1 info states..."any soft nosed or hollow nosed bullet"

 

GH

[Oly]

If you do the calc's you will find that in .243win most bullet heads (all the way down to 55gn's!) will give you greater than 1700ft/lbs, but you'd never use 55gn's on deer...would you?? :unsure:

[Graham M]

DSC 1 info states..."any soft nosed or hollow nosed bullet"

 

GH

In other words a bullet that is designed to expand at a set rate on impact.

A V-max doesn’t “expandâ€â€¦â€¦â€¦. it blows up. :unsure:

G.M.

[v-max]

Hello & thank's for your replie's.I am in Scotland but was unsure as i have herd of it & i used to use lighter round's in 243 on roe.Beleave it or not but these smaller/lighter bullet's pending on cover etc make very good round's on roe & dont do to much damage as you may think.My mate got 80g nosler BT & they are good on the roe & i use a 22.250 with 55g v-max to great effect & have used my 25/06 with 75g v-max as well.

[Dunkield]

They are classed as varmint rounds and as such are designed to explode as Graham said, so, 'normally' you would use soft points for deer.

[v-max]

Near every body i know in scotland that homeload's use's ballistic tip's from 222/223/22.250/243 etc on roe & varmint's iv done so for 8/9yrs

[mry716]

It is illegal to use Varmint or Target bullets (generally) on deer so the lighter weight Ballistic Tips are a NO NO! They are 'Varmint' NOT 'Hunting' bullets. They do not expand in a “Controlled Manner†as required by law.

 

Perhaps some of the above posters should read the Home Office Guidence re bullet weights and expanding ammunition BEFORE shooting deer again.

 

For Scotland

For the shooting of deer of any species, a bullet of an expanding type designed to deform in a predictable manner of not less than 100 grains (6.48 grams) with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2,450 feet per second (746.76 metres per second) and a muzzle energy of not less than 1,750 foot pounds (2,373 joules) must be used. For the shooting of roe deer only, a bullet of an expanding type designed to deform in a predictable manner of not less than 50 grains (3.24 grams) with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2,450 feet per second (746.76 metres per second) and a muzzle energy of not less than 1,000 foot pounds (1,356 joules) may be used. (No Calibre is stipulated)

 

This is not me telling you this is the Law.

[Sako7mm]

70 grain ballistic tips perform faultlessly on the smaller deer species for me. The issue of 'controlled expansion' in ballistic tips has not been tested in the courts so far as I'm aware.

[mry716]

It doesnt have to be tested in court - Nosler themselves say 'not for deer'

 

Only the two heavier weights are Hunting Bullets.

[northernchris]

Hornady 52 grn BT or Nosler BT out of my .22-250 for roe north of the border

[mry716]

I think the point at issue is not will a bullet shoot well and kill something, whether or not it was manufactured for some different purpose, BUT is it acceptable in the present climate of shooting sports being so readilly condemned to be not only breaking the law but post the fact on public forums.

 

A 22 Rim will kill deer and a 7x57 an Bull elephant but very few would advocate their use in actuality.

 

I have seen what Bergers do on fallow when used for neck shots. They disintegrated and fragments of copper jacket spoiled the saddle as well as breaking through the diaphragm.

 

Price isn't an issue nor is accuracy so why not stay legal and use appropriate bullets?

[Oly]

I think the point at issue is not will a bullet shoot well and kill something, whether or not it was manufactured for some different purpose, BUT is it acceptable in the present climate of shooting sports being so readilly condemned to be not only break the law but post the fact on public forums.

 

A 22 Rim will kill deer and a 7x57 an Bull elephant but very few would advocate their use in actuality.

 

I have seen what Bergers do on fallow when used for neck shots. They disintegrated and fragments of copper jacket spoiled the saddle as well as breaking through the diaphragm.

 

Price isn't an issue nor is accuracy so why not stay legal and use appropriate bullets?

 

Excellent point well made

[v-max]

Hello & thank's for every body's input on this as mry716 as high lighted a point that i never new.Dose it still stand for v-max dose it say do not use for deer on the tin as iv no boxes left.I know that match ammo ie A-MAX/BERGER etc are legal for varmint but not DEER but i only realy cleared the use on vermin through Oly's topic on 105g A-MAX in 243.I though you could only target shoot with these bullet's.Vermin can get match ammo but NOT DEER.My question was brought up as in the shooting time's a professional stalker in Hampshire as printed shoot's his roe with 70g BT in a full metal jacket.I dont want to put this down as in scotland we use .22cf 50g & with great effect so 243 with 70g fine just surprized they printed this as i thought it was 100g bullet's.

[mry716]

Before you use a Non Hunting bullet on any live quarry you need to ensure that doing so is humane. Check, by email, with the manufacturers as they will be only too willing to assist.

 

The easiet way to avoid problems is to stick with bullets that are sold specifically for hunting OR varminting etc and that way you will never have to worry. After all there are more than enough choices without verging on or going over the boundaries of the UK laws.

 

Often ignorance is the problem. XYZ used them and they were great - so I use them. But ignorance of the law is no excuse and YOU are responsible for ensuring what YOU do is 'OK'.

 

There is also another aspect in so much as everyone nowadays needs to be extra vigilent that we dont either let ourselves down and by so doing of course others, as often our actions can easily affect a far wider audience than we ever expect when it comes to shooting.

[Graham M]

My question was brought up as in the shooting time's a professional stalker in Hampshire as printed shoot's his roe with 70g BT in a full metal jacket.

If he really is shooting deer with FMJ then he is not only breaking the law, he is boasting about it as well.

A FMJ is made really for military use as it is designed specifically NOT to deform and as such doesn’t impart much of its kinetic energy into the target.

A deer shot with a FMJ bullet could run off and die a couple of days later, so if this chap does advocate this, then he wants his ticket taken off him, greased lightly and shoved up his rectum as far as it will go.

G.M.

[Oly]

GM - If he's boasting about flouting the law to the detriment of the sport I wouldn't bother lightly greasing it first!!

[v-max]

Hello i think a bit of a printing error on the ST bit but i beleave the 70g BT & was the reason to my question.

[Hunter_zero]

Hello i was wondering if a 243 loaded with say 70g bullet is legal for roe etc in england.I know it's legal in scotland but not sure in england would i be right in thinking that it's to be 100g bullet for all specie's of deer in england.

 

You can use *any* bullet that expands in a predictable manner and can be pushed to produce a ME of 1,700 ft-lbs.

Bullets such a V-Max are not designed for use on deer. That is not to say they will not kill deer, of course the bullets will. The problem arises if you shoot, too far forwards (for example) and hit the shoulder. V-Max will simply crater and not smash the shoulder in the same way a bullet designed for deer will. Meat wastage due to bruising will also be high.

 

A good bullet design will produce a good wound channel, V-Max are not designed to do this.

 

I have used 100 grain bullets (.243") for Roe, Fallow, Reds and Muntjac with no problems at all. All said and done, I do feel that the .243" is under powdered for Red deer (even tho I have shot more reds with my .243 than any other of my rifles). My .308 makes very short work of Fallow, Sika and Reds but produces more meat waste.

 

John

[Oly]

I have used 100 grain bullets (.243") for Roe, Fallow, Reds and Muntjac with no problems at all. All said and done, I do feel that the .243" is under powdered for Red deer (even tho I have shot more reds with my .243 than any other of my rifles). My .308 makes very short work of Fallow, Sika and Reds but produces more meat waste.

 

John, what bullets/loads are you using in what twist rate barrel?

[Hunter_zero]

I have used 100 grain bullets (.243") for Roe, Fallow, Reds and Muntjac with no problems at all. All said and done, I do feel that the .243" is under powdered for Red deer (even tho I have shot more reds with my .243 than any other of my rifles). My .308 makes very short work of Fallow, Sika and Reds but produces more meat waste.

 

John, what bullets/loads are you using in what twist rate barrel?

 

For which, .243" or .308"?

 

For my .243" I use Hornady 100gr SP (Interlock) part number #2450. They are great bullets with very low meat wastage. Last season I took down two hinds at 150 yds with them. I have a Mannlicher Pro-hunter but can not remember the twist (looking in my reloading log, it's either a 1 in 10 or 1 in 14, 1 in 10 I would guess.). I push them out at just under 3000 fps ~ 1900 ft-lb ME.

 

John

[Oly]

You were right, I did mean .243. Cheers John